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Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

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Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#261
post #116
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just illegal to use in its default state which transmits PII to the US As I mentioned in a sibling comment, this is technically true but complying with GDPR takes more than unchecking a few boxes. I've never seen any GA set-up that would remotely approach compliance. At minimum, you need to mask IP's before they reach Google, which means standing up a non-Google server to proxy all the hits. That is more complexity…

My current understanding of google analytics and GDPR compliance is that you can use it in a GDPR compliant manner without that much trouble. On the older UA there is a simple flag that enables IP anonymization and on the new GA4 there is purportedly no need for it as they don't collect or store the IP at all. For many clients I have set up a cookie compliance tool like Onetrust, which blocks loading of GA and other…

> For many clients I have set up a cookie compliance tool like Onetrust

Every time I've seen a cookie popup from Onetrust, it was obviously illegal because "Reject all" was not the easiest option. It's fine if "Accept all" is as easy as "Reject all", but nothing is allowed to be easier than "Reject all". Have they fixed that yet?

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#262

i’d support any legislation that booted google, fb, ms, adobe, salesforce, and a whole host of other surveillance tech companies from any and all levels of government. it’s literally as important as the separation of church and state. in fact, i’d love to see a constitutional amendment explicitly separating corporate interests from governmental ones, in all facets of civic life (e.g., campaign finance).

This is just naive. Government offices/agencies are so tightly coupled with packages like office 365 that forcefully separating them would require home built solutions which would always be terrible, less secure, and more expensive to the tax payer. There’s a lot of good these products can provide, granted they are properly audited and have high security requirements.

Rubbish, there has been a concertive effort by the US to undermine other countries including so called NATO allies in order to dominate the world, its been going of for decades.

I refuse to use the NHS here in the UK because of the widespread use of Microsoft everywhere.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible for a company, which is seemingly providing you a service since you visited the site, to make money off a targeted ad in exchange for free video streaming/content/entertainment. The whole thing has always seemed overblown to me. Websites make much more money off targeted ads, allowing them to do things like allow anyone to upload a video of any length and quality for free. And view other videos people u…

Give me the option to pay more if it lets me get more privacy. Otherwise I keep using fake accounts, VPN, antifingerprinting methods, ad blockers, etc.

Some places do. Many German news sites have a "Pur" version you can subscribe to and not get ads.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#264

Good. US citizens should be, at least, disappointed that their government is so bad at protecting their privacy, that US law is so far behind the times. To those companies and people who find these EU decisions baffling or inconvenient: tough. If you had had respect for your users this would not be an issue. You would already not be spying on them. To website visitors: if you see a cookie banner, the site is asking p…

> You would already not be spying on them. Can you point me to the part of the ban that says it's about protecting users from "spying in general" and not "protecting users from spying by US companies instead of EU companies that EU member states can obtain PII from at any time"?

I think your logic may be a bit muddled, or I misunderstand your question (but, if I take it literally, my answer would be “no”.)

Not spying ⇒ not using GA ⇒ this ruling moot.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#265
post #92

The CNIL in France is really pushing companies to not use Google Analytics, and you better listen to them here. It seems US companies should really make changes to how they host/manage data to be able to able to work in EU in the near future. (It isn’t a criticism, simply an assesment).

There's nothing US companies can do to make themselfes legal to use here. The legal framework in the US allows dragnet spying on every non-american and american companies are forced to participate in that effort.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure, and like I said, I agree completely. but you can't just say "i’d love to see a constitutional amendment explicitly separating corporate interests from governmental ones", unless you're proposing that all corporations should be state-owned and -operated, and that's not really a viable solution, plus it introduces a whole host of other problems. but even if you just mean to say "government should not share citize…

i wrote a few sentences on a large civic concept, not a treatise, so let's not jump to ideological conclusions quite yet. but yes, i'm explicitly against governments sharing private data with corporations, no matter how convenient it might seem to be for workers. governments have run for centuries without those conveniences, so it's not a dichotomous choice of share all the data or not have schools (for instance). a…

> a lot of data sharing is driven by the misguided desire to control (that is, to centralize power), whether it be teachers, students, or administrators, not for actual educational outcomes, despite the latter being the nominal impetus.

I have yet to see this occur. instead, it's all about bureaucratic convenience. why hire more people for Student Transportation to keep bus routes straight, and deal with printing out & distributing paper passenger lists to bus drivers, etc. etc., when you could use a piece of software to handle it all for you? nobody at the bureaucratic levels we're talking about here care about hoarding personal information for power or centralization or anything like that, it's purely for convenience and streamlining of bureaucracy.

one might say, ok, sure, but why does it have to be a third-party SaaS that you're SFTPing data back and forth with, why can't it just be a traditional piece of software that you install and manage locally? again: convenience, for all involved. that's one less thing for our sysadmins to worry about dealing with, and when you get enough of these things then you'll need to hire and retain more sysadmins (who we're frequently cycling through as is due to failure to compete with corporate salaries). the software developers of the third-party bus routing software don't have to worry about platform compatibility if the platform they're targeting is the web. parents can easily log into the website to see their child's bus routes and if they're delayed or whatever (apparently this is a real thing real parents demand...). but also, hey, we're already using Office 365, so "what's a few more SaaS solutions to problems we have, at this point?"

what I'm getting at here is the rise of SaaS and the fall of self-hosted solutions to things like this is pervasive everywhere in the corporate world, so if you don't want your tax money "wasted" on even keeping school district student data in-house and secure, this is the world we have to live with now. I'm not saying it doesn't suck ass, another piece of software we replaced is all web-based (albeit locally-hosted) and strictly inferior to the end-of-life Java-based software it is replacing. software kinda just keeps getting worse, and the further stratification of everything into SaaS is definitely not good in the long run. but... that's the current state of things everywhere, so why should government be any different?

if this bothers you about public schooling in particular, then the solution (which I'll likely be doing, but not for this reason) is homeschooling your kids. then their data is only stored in the district database and only transmitted to and from the state and local governments, for reporting purposes.

but more broadly speaking, what's the use in calling out governments transmitting personal information to corporations when corporations are already taking so much of your data themselves? I bought my fiancée a hat with a soda logo on it last week and she was getting ads for that specific soda the next day. how it happened, I have no idea. shortly after I moved back to my hometown, I picked up some groceries for my mom using her credit card, including a can of Red Bull I got for myself, the first I'd had in months. later that day, ad for Red Bull on my social feeds, first I'd seen... in months. whenever I buy booze, I get (different) booze ads on Twitter for days—when I don't buy any booze for awhile, the ads stop.

there's already so much personal information being trafficked between corporations everywhere without our consent, what makes the government sending it to corporations for legitimate purposes so specifically offensive? maybe I'm being too cynical but it seems like the genie's just kind of out of the bottle now for personal data in general. TFA is sticking a finger in one of many finger-sized holes in the hull of a ship which is sinking mostly not due to the finger-sized holes but to the person-sized ones that we're just kinda ignoring.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#267
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it would create jobs too, that's a plus not a minus lol

"Creating jobs" to inefficiently solve a solved task is not a good thing, it is society burning it's tax income. It is only good to create jobs when the output of those jobs is increased value.

Slowing the flow of money out of the public purse and into a very small number of barely accountable global megacorps and private equity funds, whilst improving the employment prospects of the local population, sounds like it's worth the cost of repeat work.

Also, nature loves a bit of redundancy. And capitalism loves competition. You can't have competition under a monopoly.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#268
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe your argument simply boils down to "laws shouldn't apply to people". Am I mistaken?

Besides the missed irony, I mean that we need to have and we'll inevitably have a separate internet layer / set of protocols / etc. where information will be freely broadcastable and exchangeable without enforcement of any laws . We de-facto have it now too, but it's practically geek-only hence no real "broadcast" to masses of people function can be achieved. And that once such tech becomes usable by a large percent…

Thanks for clarifying your position.

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#269
post #91

Another decision in a long stream that will make it much harder for EU start-ups companies to catch up to American ones. With absolutely no improvements to actual EU citizen well being.

Isn't this an opportunity for EU startups? By choosing to enforce the law on US companies that EU companies are already generally very compliant with, surely the EU has levelled the playing field for EU companies?

It is. Most startups in the EU have to use more and more businesses in the EU. The selection is little, so way more changes to succeed if your EU based and serve both markets.

I run Simple Analytics [1], which is a privacy-first analytics business from the Netherlands. I see a lot of business from the EU just because we are from the EU as well.

[1] https://simpleanalytics.com/?ref=hn

Re: Italian watchdog bans use of Google Analytics

#270
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

arguments can have multiple lines of reasoning, one of which can be an ad hominem all by itself.

A car has multiple parts, but it’s still difficult to use if you only use/look at each one separately

if you look carefully, the 3 sentences are disconnected. they don’t form a line of reasoning.

if it had been starter, engine, and transmission, maybe you’d have a point, but instead it’s corroded battery, door handle, and tailpipe.

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