Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

oa.mg

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 258 posts

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#101

Post by jseutter »

dhr wrote: post #14

I recently moved to the twin cities. The bike paths are absolutely amazing, and given that the whole state is pretty flat, it's not hard to get around the city for work or for fun. Bike paths are plowed in winter, but biking in -10C weather doesn't sound pleasant. I haven't tried winter biking yet, and honestly, I'm a bit scared to.

I commuted by bike during winter and found that I could handle temperatures down to -12C. Below that I couldn't keep my toes and fingers warm with mittens and booties. I had to trade off between adding layers to my legs and arms and sweating like crazy to provide enough warm blood to my hands and feet, or I'd wear the right amount for my legs and arms and my hands and feet would lose feeling.

I'm tempted to try it again this winter with battery powered hand warmers on my hands and feet, and handlebar mitts to keep the wind off my mittens.

Another important factor is the length of your ride. It takes a while to cool off, so a 15 minute ride may be fine while an hour long ride is miserable.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#102

Post by ir123 »

rayiner wrote: post #63
nick_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't somebody please think of the oil and car companies!

Oil and car companies just sell a product that people want to buy. Toyota didn’t hold a gun to my head to get me to buy an SUV that gets 15 miles a gallon. Attacking them is an out to avoid confronting the real issue, which is that you don’t like the life choices most other Americans are making.

How come europe is not that car dependent?

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#103

Post by giraffe_lady »

rayiner wrote: post #63
nick_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't somebody please think of the oil and car companies!

Oil and car companies just sell a product that people want to buy. Toyota didn’t hold a gun to my head to get me to buy an SUV that gets 15 miles a gallon. Attacking them is an out to avoid confronting the real issue, which is that you don’t like the life choices most other Americans are making.

You know I usually try to consider this sort of thing as like, groups of people responding to large-scale constraints and complex incentives rather than an issue of individual moral virtue and "life choices."

But now that you've pushed it yes absolutely I think making that choice in the face of currently happening climate change crisis is wicked. I don't like it or respect it and don't see why I would be expected to.

I fail to see how this is "the real issue" though. At least as big a problem is we've been encouraged to believe our personal choices have no effect on other people and so there is no particular weight, meaning or consequence to them. It's not true though. Your decision affects other people negatively and you suck for not caring about that.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#104

Post by vkou »

rayiner wrote: post #63
nick_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't somebody please think of the oil and car companies!

Oil and car companies just sell a product that people want to buy. Toyota didn’t hold a gun to my head to get me to buy an SUV that gets 15 miles a gallon. Attacking them is an out to avoid confronting the real issue, which is that you don’t like the life choices most other Americans are making.

They sell a product that people have to buy because decisions that were made decades ago make my life incredibly shitty if I don't buy it. And it doesn't have to be that way. We could have made better decisions in the past. We can still make better decisions going forward.

It's one thing if cars were an optional convenience. It's absolutely insane that they are a necessity in so many North American cities.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#105

Post by ericmay »

rayiner wrote: post #63
nick_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't somebody please think of the oil and car companies!

Oil and car companies just sell a product that people want to buy. Toyota didn’t hold a gun to my head to get me to buy an SUV that gets 15 miles a gallon. Attacking them is an out to avoid confronting the real issue, which is that you don’t like the life choices most other Americans are making.

> which is that you don’t like the life choices most other Americans are making

I think this is the fundamental problem. I don't have a bone to pick with oil and gas companies. It's a resource, we need to address climate change, w/e, but fossil fuels are useful and should be used within reason.

But I do have a bone to pick with this idea that Americans are making a choice because I think they're not making a choice with complete information, they're incentivized to make certain choices, and they don't have a good feedback loop to see how their choices affect them. This ranges from highway construction which displaces natural habitats and eventually bankrupts towns and cities as initial costs are subsidized by the federal government (inflation anyone?) to obesity, racism, to loss of local businesses and economies and many more.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#106

Post by fellerts »

alistairSH wrote: post #36
boringg wrote: post #9

Easy equation - make safe biking in the city and people will use it instead of driving if weather permits. It's such an easy equation to improve the quality of a city.

if weather permits Reminds me of an old cycling adage (possibly predates modern cycling, not sure): There's no such thing as poor weather, only poor clothing choices. I hate to come across as a Nordic fetishist, but there are several cold northern cities known for their year-round cycling. Bike paths are plowed and/or heated. And people just layer up. Oulu, Finland comes to mind - paths are designed to drain well so…

We have the same saying in Norwegian (where it rhymes, perhaps the English saying is translated?). Incidentally, people bike year round, and many have recently opted for electric bikes for commuting. Though I think this expression refers to rain and cold, where you can dress to be perfectly comfortable. Extreme heat is entirely different but not usually a problem in Scandinavia.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#107

Post by et-al »

rayiner wrote: post #63
nick_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't somebody please think of the oil and car companies!

Oil and car companies just sell a product that people want to buy. Toyota didn’t hold a gun to my head to get me to buy an SUV that gets 15 miles a gallon. Attacking them is an out to avoid confronting the real issue, which is that you don’t like the life choices most other Americans are making.

This is largely due to policy.

For example jaywalking wasn't a crime until cars became the norm, then automakers lobbied police to be more aggressive against pedestrians: https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history

The Section 179 of the US tax rules creates a perverse incentive for buying heavier cars for larger tax withholding: https://diminishedvalueofgeorgia.com/6000-pound-vehicles/

And one could argue our gas subsidies have just continued to enable America's car dependency.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#108

Post by jvanderbot »

Concur. I lived in minneapolis for a long time, and biked almost 100% (except winter). I have never felt more un-safe than when I tried to live this lifestyle in LA. In Minneapolis, you could ride along bike-specific greenways and literally stop at bike-only pubs, coffee shops, etc. It was quite accommodating.

I'm sure much of that has changed with recent events, but I'm moving back and am cautiously optimistic.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#109

Post by AlwaysRock »

aBioGuy wrote: post #6

If you make it pleasant to ride a bike - people will do it. Where I live, there is an off-street bike path that was completed about 10 years ago. Since then many new businesses have opened along the path. The economic impact of pulling people OUT OF A CAR and INTO THEIR environment is perhaps under-appreciated.

Yeah pretty simple. I've lived in places where I biked almost everywhere and placed where I've been scared to even get on a bike. Biking is my preferred way of getting around a city but some cities invite bikers and others dont.

Re: Investigating the effects of bike lanes in Minneapolis

#110

Post by AlecSchueler »

aBioGuy wrote: post #6

If you make it pleasant to ride a bike - people will do it. Where I live, there is an off-street bike path that was completed about 10 years ago. Since then many new businesses have opened along the path. The economic impact of pulling people OUT OF A CAR and INTO THEIR environment is perhaps under-appreciated.

> If you make it pleasant to ride a bike - people will do it.

There's a lovely saying in Dutch urban design circles, "Build for the traffic you want, not the traffic you have."

Post reply on HN