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The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

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Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#51
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never met a single person in real life who believes this (TWAW, etc.). But places like Twitter are foaming with accounts that at least perform these beliefs.

We're here too! Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Nice to meet you.

True!

Also, trans rights are human rights.

For anyone looking to understand more on any given lgbtq+ topic, I highly recommend One Topic at a Time on YouTube. He does videos covering memes from various subreddits, and often learns/teaches about these topics.

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On issues of dating/love/gender roles, I found a far more traditional response from both men and women AND trans people. Slight nit in that (most) trans people would also fall under men and women. (Sorry to be that person, it's just something I've learned a lot about semi-recently.) Curious to hear an elaboration on the definition of "far more traditional response" - I can think of a few things that could mean, and…

Good catch, I corrected my comment. I'm writing about dating/love/relationships since I haven't been single as an adult until now. I have a funny/unique perspective since I'm now almost 30 and brand new to the game. Here are some of the answers that were 100% unanimous amongst the heterosexual women I interviewed: - Men should take on all form of "handyman" chores ("it's so hot when he uses his tools") - Men should p…

Interesting results!

I'd be interested to hear more details on the demographics - I suspect that as the demographics get younger, the less these points will hold true.

My comments below are based in my own experience, and observations of my peers (ETA: Comments here are are all analysis of hetero relationships):

The points where I would expect to see the most variance from individual to individual:

> Men should take on all form of "handyman" chores ("it's so hot when he uses his tools")

In several heterosexual families I know, it's the woman who does most to all of the "handyman" type chores, and it's preferred that way.

> Men should pay for dates/meals (within reason - but the baseline expectation of a "man who can provide" is there)

This varies by couple in my experience. Some split everything 50/50ish, some the man pays by default. Don't think I've seen any where the woman always pays.

> Men should always "take the lead" in dating and even throughout relationships. My follow-up question was: "but at what point does equality or partnership come into play?" To which the common response was: "I like taking the lead sometimes, but I don't want to be the leader."

I'd be very surprised to see this play out at 100%, but I could be wrong. Most healthy relationships I've seen have been very much equal back and forth, or having each individual lead where they are most qualified (regardless of traditional gender roles).

> Men should not cry unless there is a "good reason." This is actually a more complicated answer, and I'm still trying to figure it out. When pressed, women said that men crying can be very attractive if grounded in emotional maturity rather than "childish crying." Again, still trying to figure this one out.

A "good reason" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. I'd say it would be reasonable to not expect any adult not to cry if not given a "good reason". An analysis of what constitutes a "good reason" will vary individual to individual in all likelihood, and is probably too complex for an HN comment :P.

Ones I'm not shocked by:

> Men should pursue women. Women find it unattractive if they have to pursue men.

> Women highly value men who approach them in public (in an appropriate environment). My follow-up question was: "what if they're not attractive?" to which they replied something like "it's fine as long as they handle rejection well."

In my experience and observation of others, no one wants to make the first move :P . As such, with societal expectation being on the man (in hetero relationships), it makes sense the woman would be happy with that.

> Women prefer "dad bods" as opposed to "jacked" or "body builder" looking men. This article: https://nypost.com/2021/03/25/dad-bods-are-the-biggest-turn-... was used as one of the references. I would describe this as men who are physically strong but have 12-18% bodyfat. - Women prefer tall men, but "it's more of a wishlist item than a strict requirement"

These check out with everything I've seen/heard.

> Women want men who are more confident than they are.

Everybody likes confident people. (I think?)

Other comments:

> but some of them were shocking to me because I've read a few too many "articles" from blue checkmark Twitter users which made me think traditional masculinity was an inconvenient character flaw rather than something women were directly attracted to and looking for.

This is probably due to the distaste for "toxic masculinity". Healthy masculinity is what's described above, whereas "toxic masculinity" is that taken to extremes where it is no longer healthy (ie. "Men no longer should cry at all", as opposed to "Men should cry if there is a good reason" or "A man should be able to provide" vs "If a man isn't providing everything from outside the house, he and his wife are failing")

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#53
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say, I find this sentiment confusing and unimaginative. Progressives never stop talking about all the subtle impediments to progress felt by marginalized groups -- microaggressions, stereotype threat, not seeing people who look like you in positions of power, what it's like to hold beliefs not shared by the dominant culture, etc, etc. But then they express disbelief when a member of a group they've deemed t…

> but when every commercial depicts dads as bumbling idiots and family life as chaotic and undesirable [0], suddenly there are no conceivable implications? “Dads are numbing idiots” and “family life is chaotic and undesirable” are not progressive messages at all in any way, shape, or form. I agree with you, they’re terrible, and I hate them. But I think they’re the last remnants of Al Bundy era baby boomer “I hate my…

+1 for the Bluey suggestion. The show is very sweet and funny, multi-layered, positive, caring.

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#54
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started interviewing people (across multiple different cities) for a new book I'm writing, and I'm shocked at how out of touch journalism has become. I expected progressive / left leaning answers from late 20s/early 30s people. On issues like healthcare/marijuana the answers were what I expected. On issues of dating/love/gender roles, I found a far more traditional response from both men and women (including severa…

> A common answer I received was: "I love the push for equal opportunities for men and women, but I desire [traditional gender role] and I dislike having to justify it to myself." I always found this interesting. Do they think that it's not an option anymore? That's like saying "look, I get that left-handed people should have equal opportunities, but I'm right handed." Why is the option of something else treated as a…

There's this thing on social media (and somewhat less strongly irl) of backlash when you're talking about your choices. Breastfeeding is a big no no on social media, it gets such angry backlash. Just saying you're seeing many advantages, and are happy doing it, brings out so many angry variations of 'well not everyone can do it'. I just feel it's good to put positive experiences out, 'you're shaming people that can't or have decided to bottlefeed' WTF? And don't get me started on angry women calling my wife names because she breastfed twins. Oh see the anger also when she did until they were 3 years old. I don't understand this anger especially when she's only saying 'it was great because x and y'.

Same for staying at home with the kids and trying progressive parenting. The things she gets called...

Why? She's doesn't even think of teaching or berating, she's just sharing her joy and all the positive stuff some life choices can bring... So much anger and and self-judgement out there.

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A common answer I received was: "I love the push for equal opportunities for men and women, but I desire [traditional gender role] and I dislike having to justify it to myself." I always found this interesting. Do they think that it's not an option anymore? That's like saying "look, I get that left-handed people should have equal opportunities, but I'm right handed." Why is the option of something else treated as a…

This is a good question to add to my survey. My suspicion is that these women feel as though their desired gender role(s) are being ignored or dismissed by media. The only quote I have on this subject: "If all you see on TV and the internet is successful women CEOs being celebrated, you start to feel like that's the only way to be correctly feminine." Several of my interviews veered into this territory, but I regret…

> If all you see on TV and the internet is successful women CEOs being celebrated, you start to feel like that's the only way to be correctly feminine."

That's an extremely weird media bubble they are in. One that I'm not sure exists outside their imagination.

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a low effort "gotcha" way of dismissing the real feelings of humans who are struggling to reconcile their deeply held desires with what they perceive in media.

I have met several LGBT people who refer to heterosexual people by perjoratives like "the straights" and "cis scum" and openly mock things like traditional marriage ceremonies. Like, in real conversations. To people's faces. Unsurprisingly, straight people do not like this. People do not step back and say, "Gee, this person has clearly had some bad experiences that made them this much of a snarky asshole. Overall het…

> I have met several LGBT people who refer to heterosexual people by perjoratives like "the straights" and "cis scum" and openly mock things like traditional marriage ceremonies. Like, in real conversations. To people's faces.

And a gay person has probably encountered thousands of people that have attitudes like that toward their sexuality... I really don't know what your point is.

I went to a well-known hippie college and knew people that were gender studies majors, LGBT, etc., and none of them resemble your characterization.

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A common answer I received was: "I love the push for equal opportunities for men and women, but I desire [traditional gender role] and I dislike having to justify it to myself." I always found this interesting. Do they think that it's not an option anymore? That's like saying "look, I get that left-handed people should have equal opportunities, but I'm right handed." Why is the option of something else treated as a…

This is a good question to add to my survey. My suspicion is that these women feel as though their desired gender role(s) are being ignored or dismissed by media. The only quote I have on this subject: "If all you see on TV and the internet is successful women CEOs being celebrated, you start to feel like that's the only way to be correctly feminine." Several of my interviews veered into this territory, but I regret…

> “If all you see on TV and the internet is successful women CEOs being celebrated, you start to feel like that’s the only way to be correctly feminine.”

Unless you specifically and actively filter for such content, you aren’t going to end up with that as all you see. And even if you try to, I’m not sure you can, because there are very few properties that celebrate that way of being feminine exclusively, though there are plenty that include it.

This seems like a very contrived concern.

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have met several LGBT people who refer to heterosexual people by perjoratives like "the straights" and "cis scum" and openly mock things like traditional marriage ceremonies. Like, in real conversations. To people's faces. Unsurprisingly, straight people do not like this. People do not step back and say, "Gee, this person has clearly had some bad experiences that made them this much of a snarky asshole. Overall het…

> I have met several LGBT people who refer to heterosexual people by perjoratives like "the straights" and "cis scum" and openly mock things like traditional marriage ceremonies. Like, in real conversations. To people's faces. And a gay person has probably encountered thousands of people that have attitudes like that toward their sexuality... I really don't know what your point is. I went to a well-known hippie colle…

Regarding the grandparent comment:

> "To the privileged, equality feels like oppression."

My point is that the quote is accurate, but in an upside-down-and-backwards way. The privileged, by and large, aren't sitting around in country clubs smoking fat cigars and complaining about how they now have to tolerate degenerates. They are everyday people who now have to deal with new ideas they don't understand and might not like, especially if the people presenting them are actively antagonistic about it. Even though feeling oppressed != being oppressed, it's easy to understand how that could feel oppressive, and could prompt backlash.

Hence the parent comment:

> This is a low effort "gotcha" way of dismissing the real feelings of humans who are struggling to reconcile their deeply held desires with what they perceive in media.

---

A personal example: I have no problem with gay people. There was a thread about polyamory posted a while back, though. I absolutely hate the idea and I find I don't get along with people who subscribe to it. I have trouble reconciling my belief that people, politically and socially, should be mostly free to do whatever they want, with the fact that I think polyamory is just gross and a bad idea. The few people in the polyamory community I have met didn't, uh, make this any easier.

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#59
post #3

Sometimes, when I'm reading random articles (like this one), I'm struck with the feeling that most journalists inhabit the same tiny, tiny world. There are definitely some laughs to be found skimming @drils Twitter, though.

I started interviewing people (across multiple different cities) for a new book I'm writing, and I'm shocked at how out of touch journalism has become. I expected progressive / left leaning answers from late 20s/early 30s people. On issues like healthcare/marijuana the answers were what I expected. On issues of dating/love/gender roles, I found a far more traditional response from both men and women (including severa…

>A common answer I received was: "I love the push for equal opportunities for men and women, but I desire [traditional gender role] and I dislike having to justify it to myself."

It's funny how some folks think that they have to justify anything they do. It doesn't seem to like click with some folks that if you have to justify something that you're doing but it doesn't truly affect others in the sense that it's an impediment to their health and happiness then maybe there's no need to justify it at all and that all the pressure that you're feeling is others being... a-holes. Just a random thought I guess.

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A common answer I received was: "I love the push for equal opportunities for men and women, but I desire [traditional gender role] and I dislike having to justify it to myself." I always found this interesting. Do they think that it's not an option anymore? That's like saying "look, I get that left-handed people should have equal opportunities, but I'm right handed." Why is the option of something else treated as a…

I have to say, I find this sentiment confusing and unimaginative. Progressives never stop talking about all the subtle impediments to progress felt by marginalized groups -- microaggressions, stereotype threat, not seeing people who look like you in positions of power, what it's like to hold beliefs not shared by the dominant culture, etc, etc. But then they express disbelief when a member of a group they've deemed t…

The bumbling idiot dad meme is just Mr. Mom being repackaged which I'm sure even Mr. Mom is just a repackaging of an earlier comedic trope along the same lines. I don't think these commercials are a magical threat to the health or wellbeing of the nuclear family.
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