The Cracked Wisdom of Dril • Hacker News Board

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#21

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd » Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 12:57 AM UTC

leephillips wrote: post #15

spoonjim wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you that most people do not believe that trans X are “ACTUALLY X” or that transgender women should be in competitive womens sports. It’s like, OK, you want to be a woman, you do you but don’t get into my women-only spaces. But most people with influence regardless of their beliefs don’t really say this in public.

I’ve never met a single person in real life who believes this (TWAW, etc.). But places like Twitter are foaming with accounts that at least perform these beliefs.

How do you know? Do you go around asking every person you meet about this?

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#22

Post by anonporridge » Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 12:57 AM UTC

phailhaus wrote: post #17

robmerki wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started interviewing people (across multiple different cities) for a new book I'm writing, and I'm shocked at how out of touch journalism has become. I expected progressive / left leaning answers from late 20s/early 30s people. On issues like healthcare/marijuana the answers were what I expected. On issues of dating/love/gender roles, I found a far more traditional response from both men and women (including severa…

> A common answer I received was: "I love the push for equal opportunities for men and women, but I desire [traditional gender role] and I dislike having to justify it to myself." I always found this interesting. Do they think that it's not an option anymore? That's like saying "look, I get that left-handed people should have equal opportunities, but I'm right handed." Why is the option of something else treated as a…

"To the privileged, equality feels like oppression."

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#23

Post by anonporridge » Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 1:02 AM UTC

ttymck wrote: post #12

spicyusername wrote: post #2

Sometimes, when I'm reading random articles (like this one), I'm struck with the feeling that most journalists inhabit the same tiny, tiny world. There are definitely some laughs to be found skimming @drils Twitter, though.

> the same tiny, tiny world Manhattan? To be fair, probably Brooklyn, too, in recent years.

I've recently become friends with someone originally from the west coast, but spent a good part of his early adult life in New York.

He has a shockingly large Twitter following for no obvious reason (e.g. hasn't done anything particularly interesting) and definitely lives in an obscure inner world.

I increasingly believe that the media landscape is overwhelmingly influenced by bored, yuppy, trustifarian, white New Yorkers who are completely detached from the realities of the average American.

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#24

Post by majormajor » Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 1:04 AM UTC

robmerki wrote: post #3

spicyusername wrote: post #2

Sometimes, when I'm reading random articles (like this one), I'm struck with the feeling that most journalists inhabit the same tiny, tiny world. There are definitely some laughs to be found skimming @drils Twitter, though.

I started interviewing people (across multiple different cities) for a new book I'm writing, and I'm shocked at how out of touch journalism has become. I expected progressive / left leaning answers from late 20s/early 30s people. On issues like healthcare/marijuana the answers were what I expected. On issues of dating/love/gender roles, I found a far more traditional response from both men and women (including severa…

What's interesting to me, I think, is that it's not that hard to find mainstream media that promotes a lot of these same ideas. Start with the most watched cable TV network. ;)

Yet even the people on Fox News would largely agree with the view that they are somehow "outside" the norm. While happily pocketing their advertiser money for having the most viewers...

My question is: why do people let them? It only helps the truly extreme! In two main ways: First, the more the truly extreme can convince the moderates/"traditional" that it's "us against the world," the easier to radicalize them. Second, the less that progressive folks accurately represent the prevalence of such views, the more out of touch their messaging inevitably will become in an echo chamber, shooting themselves in the foot.

The fact that Twitter is full of people who get lots of views for screaming about stuff that is actually quite mainstream in the US and even globally is an indictment of Twitter, too, for that matter. Why are we still paying attention?

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#25

Post by robmerki » Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 1:05 AM UTC

phailhaus wrote: post #17

robmerki wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started interviewing people (across multiple different cities) for a new book I'm writing, and I'm shocked at how out of touch journalism has become. I expected progressive / left leaning answers from late 20s/early 30s people. On issues like healthcare/marijuana the answers were what I expected. On issues of dating/love/gender roles, I found a far more traditional response from both men and women (including severa…

> A common answer I received was: "I love the push for equal opportunities for men and women, but I desire [traditional gender role] and I dislike having to justify it to myself." I always found this interesting. Do they think that it's not an option anymore? That's like saying "look, I get that left-handed people should have equal opportunities, but I'm right handed." Why is the option of something else treated as a…

This is a good question to add to my survey.

My suspicion is that these women feel as though their desired gender role(s) are being ignored or dismissed by media.

The only quote I have on this subject: "If all you see on TV and the internet is successful women CEOs being celebrated, you start to feel like that's the only way to be correctly feminine."

Several of my interviews veered into this territory, but I regret not pressing more into these feelings.

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#26

Post by dionidium » Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 1:12 AM UTC

phailhaus wrote: post #17

robmerki wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started interviewing people (across multiple different cities) for a new book I'm writing, and I'm shocked at how out of touch journalism has become. I expected progressive / left leaning answers from late 20s/early 30s people. On issues like healthcare/marijuana the answers were what I expected. On issues of dating/love/gender roles, I found a far more traditional response from both men and women (including severa…

> A common answer I received was: "I love the push for equal opportunities for men and women, but I desire [traditional gender role] and I dislike having to justify it to myself." I always found this interesting. Do they think that it's not an option anymore? That's like saying "look, I get that left-handed people should have equal opportunities, but I'm right handed." Why is the option of something else treated as a…

I have to say, I find this sentiment confusing and unimaginative. Progressives never stop talking about all the subtle impediments to progress felt by marginalized groups -- microaggressions, stereotype threat, not seeing people who look like you in positions of power, what it's like to hold beliefs not shared by the dominant culture, etc, etc.

But then they express disbelief when a member of a group they've deemed to be "powerful" responds similarly to cultural messaging. If you're a slightly conservative/traditional person in a university or even just a major U.S. city, you're going to be bombarded with messaging that implies non-traditional choices should be exalted and that your traditional choices should at least be viewed with suspicion. Progressives of all people should understand why that might result in someone with traditional beliefs internalizing the notion that their choices are bad. "We're not saying your choices are bad, we're just saying over and over and over again that the other choices are good."

We're told that depictions of minorities in media can have powerful, life-altering effects, but when every commercial depicts dads as bumbling idiots and family life as chaotic and undesirable [0], suddenly there are no conceivable implications?

It's all pretty straightforward if you just take your own arguments seriously (and remember that individuals experience the world as individuals, even if they're part of some group you perceive to be privileged).

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kEYp6OY7BI

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#27

Post by majormajor » Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 1:15 AM UTC

phailhaus wrote: post #17

robmerki wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started interviewing people (across multiple different cities) for a new book I'm writing, and I'm shocked at how out of touch journalism has become. I expected progressive / left leaning answers from late 20s/early 30s people. On issues like healthcare/marijuana the answers were what I expected. On issues of dating/love/gender roles, I found a far more traditional response from both men and women (including severa…

> A common answer I received was: "I love the push for equal opportunities for men and women, but I desire [traditional gender role] and I dislike having to justify it to myself." I always found this interesting. Do they think that it's not an option anymore? That's like saying "look, I get that left-handed people should have equal opportunities, but I'm right handed." Why is the option of something else treated as a…

In this case I could see a case where it could seem directly threatening: the more men that express wanting to be provided for, instead of working, the smaller the pool of potential partners for them. Traditionally, expressing that or acting on it would be a big social/reputational risk for a man.

Whether or not that's really true - "anyone who's going to be miserable because they're working full time and you don't isn't right for you" or somesuch - I could certainly see people feeling like it impacts them. It might feel like "oh, being a woman still has these other disadvantages that aren't fully eliminated, and now you're wanting me to give up something I see as one of the advantages in exchange for nothing."

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#28

Post by robmerki » Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 1:19 AM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #22

phailhaus wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A common answer I received was: "I love the push for equal opportunities for men and women, but I desire [traditional gender role] and I dislike having to justify it to myself." I always found this interesting. Do they think that it's not an option anymore? That's like saying "look, I get that left-handed people should have equal opportunities, but I'm right handed." Why is the option of something else treated as a…

"To the privileged, equality feels like oppression."

This is a low effort "gotcha" way of dismissing the real feelings of humans who are struggling to reconcile their deeply held desires with what they perceive in media.

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#29

Post by PragmaticPulp » Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 1:21 AM UTC

spicyusername wrote: post #2

Sometimes, when I'm reading random articles (like this one), I'm struck with the feeling that most journalists inhabit the same tiny, tiny world. There are definitely some laughs to be found skimming @drils Twitter, though.

> Sometimes, when I'm reading random articles (like this one), I'm struck with the feeling that most journalists inhabit the same tiny, tiny world.

This isn't really a random article, though. It's a link delivered to you on the front page of a social media network you frequent (Hacker News). Anything that gets posted here and collects enough upvotes is pre-filtered to match the world that this audience inhabits.

That said, IMO there is a growing problem in the journalism world with journalists spending too much time on Twitter. A lot of online journalism feels like someone who spends all day on Twitter noticed something quickly increasing in popularity and then rushed to write an article about it.

Re: The Cracked Wisdom of Dril

#30

Post by majormajor » Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 1:24 AM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #8

robmerki wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started interviewing people (across multiple different cities) for a new book I'm writing, and I'm shocked at how out of touch journalism has become. I expected progressive / left leaning answers from late 20s/early 30s people. On issues like healthcare/marijuana the answers were what I expected. On issues of dating/love/gender roles, I found a far more traditional response from both men and women (including severa…

My new game is watching when something online doesn’t interview people directly but simply reports on what someone on Twitter or Reddit said (and half the time they do have a picture and a name it’s a Twitter user they contacted). The world outside the internet is getting wider and wider it seems.

I've started not considering it "news" if your article consists just of idle online chatter. If no action is being taken, there's a good chance it's not anything more than background noise of the "people will always talk about SOMETHING" type.