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TerraUSD crash led to vanished savings, shattered dreams

wsj.com

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Re: TerraUSD crash led to vanished savings, shattered dreams

#291

Post by marcus_holmes »

bowsamic wrote: post #272
marcus_holmes wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they have all profited by destroying other people's lives. It's possible that they didn't know that's where the money was coming from. But unlikely, because they're smart people and they have extensive knowledge of this industry. Where did they think the money was coming from, if not ultimately gullible individuals whose lives are being ruined by this?

Okay so if I ask them it won't become clear? You seem to have changed this from "they will make it clear they are scammers" to "I think they are scammers" Also, there is a lot of VC money in Cardano and Ethereum

and that VC money is chasing a return, which is coming from gullible people.

I think there's a lot of hand-waving and bullshit before we get to the "yes, this is ultimately funded by speculators, and a lot of those speculators are uninformed people putting their life savings at risk". But that's where the conversations I've had with crypto people end up.

Re: TerraUSD crash led to vanished savings, shattered dreams

#292

Post by tim333 »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #223

So, what are we going to do about this? We've known that the whole crypto scene in general is a fraudulent, cynical ploy to get rich at other people's expense. Any conversation with anyone involved in the industry quickly reveals that their goal is to get rich from asset speculation. And that means for them to win, someone else must lose. The thing that the article describes is an inevitable consequence of this proce…

>And that means for them to win, someone else must lose

Not necessarily if the crypto assets maintain long term value. I doubt people who bought bitcoin at $100 feel like losers out of it.

Re: TerraUSD crash led to vanished savings, shattered dreams

#293

Post by bowsamic »

carnitine wrote: post #289
mensetmanusman wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course some do, but there are just as many (and a bit more) that under perform. The average performance relative to the index matters.

Yes, but that’s not what the comment I’m replying to said. There seems to be some pervasive belief that absolutely no one ever beats the S&P500 index in the long run, which is obviously nonsense.

Absolutely no normal person beats it except by dumb luck

Re: TerraUSD crash led to vanished savings, shattered dreams

#294

Post by bowsamic »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #291
bowsamic wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay so if I ask them it won't become clear? You seem to have changed this from "they will make it clear they are scammers" to "I think they are scammers" Also, there is a lot of VC money in Cardano and Ethereum

and that VC money is chasing a return, which is coming from gullible people. I think there's a lot of hand-waving and bullshit before we get to the "yes, this is ultimately funded by speculators, and a lot of those speculators are uninformed people putting their life savings at risk". But that's where the conversations I've had with crypto people end up.

Can you link to a case where Charles or Vitalik clearly admit they are scammers or have the intention to scam?

Re: TerraUSD crash led to vanished savings, shattered dreams

#295

Post by carnitine »

bowsamic wrote: post #293
carnitine wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that’s not what the comment I’m replying to said. There seems to be some pervasive belief that absolutely no one ever beats the S&P500 index in the long run, which is obviously nonsense.

Absolutely no normal person beats it except by dumb luck

If I spent the last 20 years allocating 90% of my savings to SPY, and the remaining 10% in a large-cap tech focussed index, I’ve outperformed SPY. Is that dumb luck or is it a pretty trivial implementation of a sensible investment thesis?

There’s nothing magical about some committee-curated collection of 500 US-only equities which means it outperforms every other option ipso facto.

If you were talking about a normal person actively managing a portfolio I’d be more inclined to agree.

Re: TerraUSD crash led to vanished savings, shattered dreams

#296

Post by rhexs »

biztos wrote: post #219
SilverBirch wrote: post #205

I think we really need to start talking about the broader "why" of why crypto. There's a good reason that we're seeing /r/antiwork and people throwing their last pennies into crypto. People have seen that those with assets got rich and those that work get poorer. There's no point aspiring to a better life through work. In reality what has happened is inflation that we don't measure. Assets are inflated by easy money…

> those with assets got rich and those that work get poorer I think this is the take-away of the modern world economy. If you can somehow get enough money to join the asset-holding class you have a chance, otherwise you have no chance. And even if you can, you're fighting a serious uphill battle against the people who got there earlier and got to that sweet free number-go-up zone while you were still toiling. Right n…

Move away from one of the single most expensive housing markets in the world?

That’s a terrible example. Remote work is a thing if you for some reason have to work for Bay companies.

Re: TerraUSD crash led to vanished savings, shattered dreams

#297

Post by phs318u »

WJW wrote: post #274
beachy wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting premise, but as someone who does regular trapping for exotic pests, actual trapping is very much work. You do your rounds (a lot of walking), pull out dead animals and carry them with you, re-bait your traps, repair traps as required, dump the dead animals, and repeat over and over again. I guess there are other forms of trapping - more like hunting, a one off exercise to get that - but I would…

I agree that the actual "setting up traps" is work, but so is choosing investments (even if that is usually shunted off to an index fund these days). My gist was more that in both investing and trapping there is a point where the positions are set up and there just isn't anything that you can do to make the process go faster. Not being able to make it go faster by putting in additional work seems to be psychologicall…

> make it go faster by putting in additional work

I feel this is slightly wrong. I’ve observed the kinds of people most likely to lose their money in this way don’t want to put in additional “work”. They want (hope for) additional “woo”.

Re: TerraUSD crash led to vanished savings, shattered dreams

#298

Post by marcus_holmes »

bowsamic wrote: post #294
marcus_holmes wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and that VC money is chasing a return, which is coming from gullible people. I think there's a lot of hand-waving and bullshit before we get to the "yes, this is ultimately funded by speculators, and a lot of those speculators are uninformed people putting their life savings at risk". But that's where the conversations I've had with crypto people end up.

Can you link to a case where Charles or Vitalik clearly admit they are scammers or have the intention to scam?

I haven't had a conversation with either of these people, so I think you're asking me to answer a different question.

Re: TerraUSD crash led to vanished savings, shattered dreams

#299

Post by digianarchist »

tim333 wrote: post #283
musicale wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd never heard of stablegains before. So it was basically YC-funded fraud?

Ah - I didn't know it was YC but it seems it is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31431224 Though it's not clear that it's fraud more so than selling imaginary internet money like bitcoins for cash is.

Not sure about everyone else but without a business plan or utility that still sounds like defrauding investors to me.

Re: TerraUSD crash led to vanished savings, shattered dreams

#300

Post by SilasX »

HWR_14 wrote: post #263
SilasX wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I’ll bite. Your comment history doesn’t have you mentioning Terra, TerraUSD, or Luna before May 9, e.g. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... You just made generic anti-crypto recommendations, some of which look good in hindsight. That’s not the same as identifying the specific mechanism that proved to be Luna’s downfall; it’s more like being a permabear who predicted 8 of the last 3 s…

Why can't I rely on "avoid crypto, it's a scam"? I have to identify every new coin and it's mechanism of failure?

For the reason I just gave: it would mean that others could say “I told you so” about Dai/Compound etc not crashing. If it’s still not clear, imagine I was always saying the stock market is a scam and would collapse. Do I get credit for predicting Netflix’s recent tumble? Even if it happened for completely unrelated reasons to the mechanisms of collapse I was warning about?

It’s fine to be risk-averse and avoid crypto as a rule; that’s not the same thing as knowing Luna couldn’t work long-term.

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