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10mbps over 1km on a single pair of wires

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Re: 10mbps over 1km on a single pair of wires

#11

Post by yosheli123 »

worldofmatthew wrote: post #6

Some questions: 1. Would you need two of them at a $430 cost for this? 2. If so would the person be much better with alternative solutions like fixed wireless or Ethernet-VDSL2 conversion that would deliver much better performance at this price point?

Yeah approx $400 for a pair. Mainly chip shortage messiness, I think I can get the cost down to less than $200 a pair in April 2023.

Regarding VSDL, never used it myself; I guess it would come down to space/power considerations. I haven't seen VDSL used much in the industrial automation, single pair ethernet seems to be the preferred choice.

Re: 10mbps over 1km on a single pair of wires

#12

Post by chmod775 »

RicoElectrico wrote: post #8
hericium wrote: post #5

DSLs were capable of at least 8Mbit/s speeds close to 20 years ago. I worked for a small ISP and where were more than 100 meters (theoretical limit for cat5) between residential buildings, we were setting up 8 modems on a single UTP cable. With home internet speeds back then it wasn't a bottleneck.

Wait, can DSL modems talk to each other instead of a DSLAM line card?

They may be using the term "modem" loosely here, or rather, more generally than "home modems".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem

Re: 10mbps over 1km on a single pair of wires

#13

Post by yosheli123 »

hotpotamus wrote: post #10

It seems that single mode fiber is king for long distance cable runs now, nevermind that it can push gigabits. What kind of cable would this be and is it actually much cheaper? My impression is that most cost of cabling now is the labor to run it as opposed to the medium, but I'm a neophyte for sure.

Basically just any CAT5e like twisted pair has worked for me up to 1km. 26AWG unshielded twisted pair basically, 100Ohm diff impedance. Cost of cabling is pennies IMO. Labor cost, who knows.

Optical can be quite expensive though these boards aren't exactly cheap (yet).

Re: 10mbps over 1km on a single pair of wires

#14

Post by madengr »

hotpotamus wrote: post #10

It seems that single mode fiber is king for long distance cable runs now, nevermind that it can push gigabits. What kind of cable would this be and is it actually much cheaper? My impression is that most cost of cabling now is the labor to run it as opposed to the medium, but I'm a neophyte for sure.

I wired my house with 62/125 fiber 22 years ago as a 1 km spool was only $250. I’m too lazy to look it up, but I suspect multimode fiber is cheaper than copper, and termination kits are cheap now.

I’m running 10G on single mode 100 ft jumpers to a few computers in the house and that’s cheap too. SFP are $35 but the NIC are more.

Re: 10mbps over 1km on a single pair of wires

#15

Post by yosheli123 »

xattt wrote: post #9
worldofmatthew wrote: post #6

Some questions: 1. Would you need two of them at a $430 cost for this? 2. If so would the person be much better with alternative solutions like fixed wireless or Ethernet-VDSL2 conversion that would deliver much better performance at this price point?

The economics in buying this is whether re-running the 1-km of copper with whatever media you want will cost $430 or less. I think just rolling a telecom truck will cost you this.

Yeah fair. I'm aiming at new space constrained applications with this.

Re: 10mbps over 1km on a single pair of wires

#16

Post by crazyjncsu »

RicoElectrico wrote: post #8
hericium wrote: post #5

DSLs were capable of at least 8Mbit/s speeds close to 20 years ago. I worked for a small ISP and where were more than 100 meters (theoretical limit for cat5) between residential buildings, we were setting up 8 modems on a single UTP cable. With home internet speeds back then it wasn't a bottleneck.

Wait, can DSL modems talk to each other instead of a DSLAM line card?

Not a traditional dsl modem, but these work well using dsl technology: https://www.amazon.com/Tupavco-Ethernet-Extender-Kit-Repeate...

Re: 10mbps over 1km on a single pair of wires

#17

Post by worldofmatthew »

yosheli123 wrote: post #11
worldofmatthew wrote: post #6

Some questions: 1. Would you need two of them at a $430 cost for this? 2. If so would the person be much better with alternative solutions like fixed wireless or Ethernet-VDSL2 conversion that would deliver much better performance at this price point?

Yeah approx $400 for a pair. Mainly chip shortage messiness, I think I can get the cost down to less than $200 a pair in April 2023. Regarding VSDL, never used it myself; I guess it would come down to space/power considerations. I haven't seen VDSL used much in the industrial automation, single pair ethernet seems to be the preferred choice.

Long range networking is a very overcrowded market. You need something that is either really good or really cheap.

Re: 10mbps over 1km on a single pair of wires

#18

Post by time0ut »

hotpotamus wrote: post #10

It seems that single mode fiber is king for long distance cable runs now, nevermind that it can push gigabits. What kind of cable would this be and is it actually much cheaper? My impression is that most cost of cabling now is the labor to run it as opposed to the medium, but I'm a neophyte for sure.

A common use case for this is to use existing infrastructure like in an industrial setting. You can also provide power over a cable like this.

Re: 10mbps over 1km on a single pair of wires

#19

Post by jacknews »

SPE (Single-Pair Ethernet) is going to be a big deal, IMHO, and I would view this as a 'development board' for learning, though perhaps it also makes economic sense as an actual solution in some situations.

The other killer feature of SPE (apart from in-theory cheaper cabling) is PoDL (Power over data line). Does this board do that?

Re: 10mbps over 1km on a single pair of wires

#20

Post by mschuster91 »

hotpotamus wrote: post #10

It seems that single mode fiber is king for long distance cable runs now, nevermind that it can push gigabits. What kind of cable would this be and is it actually much cheaper? My impression is that most cost of cabling now is the labor to run it as opposed to the medium, but I'm a neophyte for sure.

Fiber has the downside of being extremely vulnerable to mechanical damage or dirt and expensive on long runs. This here runs on virtually anything that's twisted-pair wire.
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