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Deno raises $21M

deno.com

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Re: Deno raises $21M

#301

Post by berkes »

lmm wrote: post #297
nickjj wrote: post #217

From the post: > For example, it is integrated with GitHub in such a way that on every push it will provision a new server running specifically that code, deployed to the edge, worldwide, and persisted permanently. Want to access the code your app was running a month ago at commit f7c5e19? It will be served up instantly at a moment's notice. It costs you nothing to have that bit of JavaScript responding to requests i…

> The post mentions "The open source Deno runtime shows how clean and productive a modern, batteries-included, programming environment can be" so it sounds like they expect you'll be running database backed apps and not only static sites. It suggests you'll be running a datastore, not necessarily an SQL database (the most overrated technology in existence IMO, especially for web apps where essentially none of its str…

More practically: for example, I write my web service(s) with event sourced architecture. Now any worker, or any service sending a command, can operate against the storage. Regardless of version.

Other architectural patterns offer the same kinds of options. Clean architecture or hexagonal architecture limits the surface (coupling) between your versioned logic and the data so much, that they can version independent.

Alas, most web development uses some ORM as the center of the app. Active record, for example. An architecture known for its immense and tight coupling to the database. An architecture that has as major downside that businesslogic cannot evolve separate from the data store.

Your parent commentor very likely is, unaware, running into this downside and projects that experience to all of web development.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#302

Post by berkes »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #286
rising-sky wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a battle of ideals, you could have have a high entropy ecosystem that's constantly evolving and perhaps "appears" unstable, or an ecosystem that's "gotten it's shit together" and probably trends toward stagnation and apathy

Is Go a counterexample?

It is. As is Rust.

Grandparent confuses correlation for causation.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#303

Post by berkes »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #294
int_19h wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many compiled languages that produce more performant code than V8. As you noted yourself yourself, V8 has time constraints - it must be able to compile and run the code "fast enough" for a web page to load. This limits the extent of optimizations that it can perform.

And for the handful of routines where all-out performance is the bottleneck for your business those languages are the right tool for the job. For everything else, there’s JavaScript.

There are many areas in which JavaScript "performs" poorer than other options. Productivity, stability, maintainability, to name a few. Other languages and ecosystems are much better at that, than JavaScript.

Luckily projects like typescript solve those issues, or try to.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#304

Post by berkes »

kbd wrote: post #82
mrkurt wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like TypeScript and would like to write backends in TypeScript. I'm coming around on Elixir. I never want to write Go that interacts with a database again. Rust seems complicated. I don't think I'm smart or committed enough to get anywhere with rust.

> I never want to write Go that interacts with a database again. Why? I’ve been using sqlx and it seems fine.

Not OP, but one answer I've often heard and experienced myself is that statically typed datastructures feel painful when you come from dynamic languages like Python, Ruby or JavaScript.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#306

Post by WA »

lmm wrote: post #297
nickjj wrote: post #217

From the post: > For example, it is integrated with GitHub in such a way that on every push it will provision a new server running specifically that code, deployed to the edge, worldwide, and persisted permanently. Want to access the code your app was running a month ago at commit f7c5e19? It will be served up instantly at a moment's notice. It costs you nothing to have that bit of JavaScript responding to requests i…

> The post mentions "The open source Deno runtime shows how clean and productive a modern, batteries-included, programming environment can be" so it sounds like they expect you'll be running database backed apps and not only static sites. It suggests you'll be running a datastore, not necessarily an SQL database (the most overrated technology in existence IMO, especially for web apps where essentially none of its str…

So what’s a good web app datastore in your opinion, if SQL is highly overrated?

> Storing old data as-is

What does this mean? Can you give an example?

Re: Deno raises $21M

#307

Post by The_Colonel »

Androider wrote: post #205
vcryan wrote: post #188

Deno overstates the problem it is intended to solve because its founders needed to justify achieving funding by being developer-famous. Let's say a company were to adopt this tech over Node, well, it seems like it would be slightly better, but probably not much of a game-changer. I'll leave it to y'all to talk about what tech is truly interesting as I don't want to seem ideological/biased, I just don't see how Deno i…

It's usually not enough to be a bit better than what you're trying to displace, you have to be 10X better than the status quo to have any real impact. For example, SVN tried to be a better CVS, while Git came out of left field and destroyed the competition by being 10X better. In that, Deno reminds me of the once-hyped Meteor.js. Meteor.js also though that funding could be the answer, but it wasn't. They're both clev…

> For example, SVN tried to be a better CVS, while Git came out of left field and destroyed the competition by being 10X better.

I agree with the overall sentiment, but this is a bad example. SVN was pretty successful at replacing CVS, even though it was not 10x better.

Until, of course the new generation came in (git, mercurial...).

Re: Deno raises $21M

#308

Post by scarface74 »

nl wrote: post #293
scarface74 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtual machines are still the abstraction. Each Lambda/Fargate (serverless Docker) runs in its own VM.

Lambda and most similar technologies use variants of containers, not VMs. Outside HN that distinction might not be important. Here being pedantically correct does matter on this because the VM abstraction has been around for a long time, whereas containers were an enabling technology for serverless. And containers and the fast startup, security and resource consumption guarantees they offer is a big difference to the…

Lambda and Fargate use the Firecracker VM

https://firecracker-microvm.github.io/

Firecracker is a virtual machine monitor (VMM) that uses the Linux Kernel-based Virtual Machine (KVM) to create and manage microVMs. Firecracker has a minimalist design. It excludes unnecessary devices and guest functionality to reduce the memory footprint and attack surface area of each microVM

“How AWS’s Firecracker Virtual Machines work”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BIRv2FnHJAg

The Lambda service team always emphasizes the level of isolation that Firecracker VMs gives you that containers don’t.

Re: Deno raises $21M

#309

Post by brundolf »

nl wrote: post #295
brundolf wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the performance argument isn't even just about CPU time, right? The fact that JS is heavily event-friendly, and all of its IO APIs are non-blocking by default, gives it an automatic advantage over busy-waiting languages like Python, and also languages where concurrency means writing threads manually. If your web server spends most of its time on IO (network, DB, file system), as many do, JS acts as a lightweight…

You have to work pretty hard to make Python (or any other language with reasonable web frameworks) busy-wait! Blocking is NOT the same as busy wait.

Ah, I didn't realize there was a distinction

Still, despite that it seems like there's a big advantage to be had

Re: Deno raises $21M

#310

Post by throwawaylala1 »

berkes wrote: post #301
lmm wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The post mentions "The open source Deno runtime shows how clean and productive a modern, batteries-included, programming environment can be" so it sounds like they expect you'll be running database backed apps and not only static sites. It suggests you'll be running a datastore, not necessarily an SQL database (the most overrated technology in existence IMO, especially for web apps where essentially none of its str…

More practically: for example, I write my web service(s) with event sourced architecture. Now any worker, or any service sending a command, can operate against the storage. Regardless of version. Other architectural patterns offer the same kinds of options. Clean architecture or hexagonal architecture limits the surface (coupling) between your versioned logic and the data so much, that they can version independent. A…

> More practically

> event sourced architecture

You must be joking. Please tell me you're joking.

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