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GitHub Copilot is generally available

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Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#571

Post by culi »

LrnByTeach wrote: post #567
lsh123 wrote: post #555

I assume that Copilot uses open source projects on GitHub to “learn” what to suggest. Some of these projects might be under, say, GPL v3. A developer uses Copilot for a commercial project and Copilot insert a complete function from a GPL v3 code into this project. Someone notices this and sues the commercial project for breaking GPL v3. Will GitHub pickup the tab?

a person bought a hammer/knife from a shop and used it to hurt another person. When the victim sues the attacker, can the manufacturer of hammer/knife pick up the tab?

That's... not quite the same thing.

More like, everybody has their own sourdough starter. Some people sell theirs, some people give it out for free. Someone goes from house to house to make a super-starter by collecting pieces from each house. Then someone uses that starter to sell a patented bread

Ok it's not a great analogy either. Maybe we need to stop trying to reduce the complexities of digital so much

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#572

Post by IncRnd »

blip54321 wrote: post #570
lsh123 wrote: post #555

I assume that Copilot uses open source projects on GitHub to “learn” what to suggest. Some of these projects might be under, say, GPL v3. A developer uses Copilot for a commercial project and Copilot insert a complete function from a GPL v3 code into this project. Someone notices this and sues the commercial project for breaking GPL v3. Will GitHub pickup the tab?

Damages. This question will come back to damages. If you steal 10 lines of code from me, the damages will be the greater of: - The benefit to you (10 minutes programmer time) - The cost to me ($0) - Statutory damages (probably $200) In other words, it's very unlikely to be worth a lawsuit. The most likely outcome is: - A legal letter is sent - Infringing code is removed - As good bedside manner, some nominal amount o…

Since people and github are contemplating repeatedly infringing, is there an avenue to increase these damages? This seems like repeated and willful infringement.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#573

Post by stillsut »

Copilot's funny because it can have A+ code formatting and style gimmicks but D- in terms of comprehension of the task.

Which means it's going to be harder to evaluate junior candidates code without actually running and testing that code because they'll have built a huge library that looks really well formatted but has logic gaps which are difficult to catch on a glance. As it stands currently, usually some style and organization tells you this person gets it.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#574

Post by culi »

cube2222 wrote: post #151

I've been using Copilot for a few months and... Yeah, it makes mistakes, sometimes it shows you i.e. the most common way to do something, even if that way has a bug in it. Yes, sometimes it writes a complete blunder. And yes again, sometimes there are very subtle logical mistakes in the code it proposes. But overall? It's been *great*! Definitely worth the 10 bucks a month (especially with a developer salary). :inser…

I really like it too but I can't help but feel like all the same people panicked about Microsoft acquiring GitHub are suddenly quiet about the fact that Microsoft has found the ultimate way to profit off of open-source

There's a ton of developer effort that went into Copilot and those devs should be paid fairly. But the majority of what fuels Copilot is the millions of lines of open source code submitted every day.

I think I'd feel a lot better about it if they committed a good chunk of that money back into the same open source communities they depend on. Otherwise its a parasitic (or at least not fully consensual) relationship

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#575

Post by culi »

Hamcha wrote: post #195

I've been using Copilot non-stop on every hobby project I have ever since they've let me in (2021/07/13) and I am honestly flabbergasted they think it's worth 10$/mo. My experience using it till this day is the following: - It's an amazing all-rounder autocomplete for most boilerplate code. Generally anything that someone who's spent 5 minutes reading the code can do, Copilot can do just as well. - It's terrible if y…

I've used it only slightly longer and had pretty much the same experience. I find it hard to believe anyone is really letting copilot write more than 2 lines of code for them at a time.

It's an AI powered autocomplete. And honestly it's excellent at that. All I really want is an AI powered autocomplete and if a FLOSS project took up the challenge I'd happily donate $10/month to see it succeed. Especially if it meant none of the licensing concerns that come with GH Copilot

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#576

Post by deorder »

DustinBrett wrote: post #206
DustinBrett wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to see the pay URL and it said I was eligible to get it for free. Not sure if that works for some people who contrib to other OSS repo's, but I was about to give up on it when I saw I didn't have to pay, so might be worth checking.

Also, $10/mo is not so bad but I am not in the place right now for more subscriptions. I am in the process of stopping several at the moment.

Same here. With prices rising everywhere and a salary of ~40k euros before taxes (which is normal in IT in many EU countries if you don't work for big tech) I hardly have room for another subscription. People here are too quick to say "what is $10 on a $80/hour salary?"

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#577

Post by uluyol »

culi wrote: post #574
cube2222 wrote: post #151

I've been using Copilot for a few months and... Yeah, it makes mistakes, sometimes it shows you i.e. the most common way to do something, even if that way has a bug in it. Yes, sometimes it writes a complete blunder. And yes again, sometimes there are very subtle logical mistakes in the code it proposes. But overall? It's been *great*! Definitely worth the 10 bucks a month (especially with a developer salary). :inser…

I really like it too but I can't help but feel like all the same people panicked about Microsoft acquiring GitHub are suddenly quiet about the fact that Microsoft has found the ultimate way to profit off of open-source There's a ton of developer effort that went into Copilot and those devs should be paid fairly. But the majority of what fuels Copilot is the millions of lines of open source code submitted every day. I…

Microsoft could simply crawl archives of code wherever they exist, and use that to build copilot.

GitHub hosting open source communities is a way of giving back.

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#578

Post by codegladiator »

blip54321 wrote: post #570
lsh123 wrote: post #555

I assume that Copilot uses open source projects on GitHub to “learn” what to suggest. Some of these projects might be under, say, GPL v3. A developer uses Copilot for a commercial project and Copilot insert a complete function from a GPL v3 code into this project. Someone notices this and sues the commercial project for breaking GPL v3. Will GitHub pickup the tab?

Damages. This question will come back to damages. If you steal 10 lines of code from me, the damages will be the greater of: - The benefit to you (10 minutes programmer time) - The cost to me ($0) - Statutory damages (probably $200) In other words, it's very unlikely to be worth a lawsuit. The most likely outcome is: - A legal letter is sent - Infringing code is removed - As good bedside manner, some nominal amount o…

Do you see a scope for troll code GPLers, something along the lines of troll patents ?

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#579

Post by culi »

omginternets wrote: post #320
jerf wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"how to put a sentence together describing the rules, it absolutely doesn't actually understand how "Chii" melds work" The more experience I get with GPT-3 type technologies, the more I would never let them near my code. It wasn't an intent of the technology per se, but it has proved to be very good at producing superficially appealing output that can stand up not only to a quick scan, but to a moderately deep readin…

I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis, but feel like it’s ignoring the elephant in the room: writing code is not the bottleneck in need of optimization. Conceiving the solution is. Any time “saved” through Copilot and it’s ilk is immediately nullified by having to check it’s correctness. From there, the problem is worsened by the Frankensteinesque stitching together of disparate parts that you describe. I can’t i…

I don't think you've actually used it tbh. It's much quicker to read code than to write it. In addition, 95% of Copilots suggestions are a single line and they're almost always right (and also totally optional).

Here's how it actually works in practice

1. Start a line to do an obvious piece of code that is slightly tedious to write 2. Type 2 characters and Copilot usually guesses what you want based on context. Perhaps this time it's off. 3. No matter, just type another 3 characters or so and Copilot catches up and gives a different suggestion. I just hit "tab" and the line is complete

It really shines in writing boiler plate. I admit that I'm paranoid every time it suggests more than 2 lines so I usually avoid it. But in ~year of using it I've run into Copilot induced headaches twice. Once was in the first week or so of using it. I sweared off of using it for anything more than a line then. Eventually I started to ease up since it was accurate so often and then I learned my second lesson with another mistake. Other than that it's done nothing but save me time. It's also been magnificent for learning new languages. I'll usually look up it's suggestions to understand better but even knowing what to look up is a huge service it provides

Re: GitHub Copilot is generally available

#580

Post by culi »

BrandonJung wrote: post #483
manimino wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generated texts often sound very confident, even when they are totally incorrect. A humorous example: https://cookingflavr.com/should-you-feed-orioles-all-summer/ Human pair programmers will signal when they're not sure about something. A code generator will not.

when we first built Tabnine we had confidence percentages next to suggestions. Do you think this would help?

How has tabnine been responding to the development of Copilot? I've looked into it and the most enticing feature to me is the ability to opt out of it using your own code to train (not even sure if that's a correct interpretation)

However it's even more expensive than copilot...

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