Sex is going out of fashion?

Yes. This is absolutely a fundamental problem not just with dating apps but with any business whose employees and/or customers have surpassed Dunbar's number. It's not so much a problem of money or capitalism as it is with the dehumanization of financial transaction.

> As far as porn goes, it's absolutely a substitute for sex for some people. It's less fulfilling but it's enough to get off and have the desire go away and it requires far less effort.

It is a substitute as far as it can surpass the cost/benefit of meatspace. If too many people are ill prepared to be self-reliant adults and attract the other sex, and thereby unable to be sufficiently attracted or aroused by their peers, then porn completely makes sense. The proliferation of isolation only further encourages porn use, as it does with any form of escapism.

But this is coming from the standpoint that I have which is that far too many adults from my generation onward are objectively less self-reliant and have more pathologies than their proximal ancestors. Not everyone agrees with this, but I know enough Millennials and have enough Gen Z and Alpha family members that my experience is informing me that said generations aren't destined for greater success than the previous.

My point being that I think if more people were socially functional and able to make themselves attracted to whichever sex(es) they are attracted to, porn might not be quite as normalized as it currently is. (it would still be normalized by virtue of the internet)

> Another thing about porn I haven't seen mentioned much in this thread is how unrealistic it is and how people raised with a lot of porn probably have really unrealistic ideas about what sex is like. If they try to literally act out porn in the bedroom with their partner, it's likely not to go that well. In some cases they might go right for things many partners won't be interested in or would only be interested in after establishing a lot of trust and a real relationship.

I generally agree... it can set people up to have expectations that lead to disappointment and even personal failure that leads to poor self esteem, animosity, and lack of fulfillment.

I almost want sex-ed classes to find a way to teach about this, but that's a whole can of worms that I ultimately think would backfire and be a bad idea. My intentions are good, though. :)

However, I don't entirely agree with the use of the word "unrealistic." Putting aside the theatrics in porn, telling people that porn is unrealistic can give them the impression that their particular sexual interests are abnormal and can't be lived out in real life with consensual partners, which is by no means true. I'm not sure I know what the best alternative is, but there's got to be some way to communicate that. It's actually a very nuanced point of discussion, I think.

> If they try to literally act out porn in the bedroom with their partner, it's likely not to go that well. In some cases they might go right for things many partners won't be interested in or would only be interested in after establishing a lot of trust and a real relationship.

Yes. I think this is where parents (and unfortunately probably teachers of some kind) are going to have to grow the cajones to actually talk about these issues with their kids at an appropriate age. We can't pretend like we live in a world where young people can't watch explicit material online instantly and for free. The "birds and the bees" doesn't cut it anymore.

On a related note, I've found it interesting that apparently girls get way more sexual education from their mothers than boys do from their dads. My dad tried... not well, but he tried. And it was way too late. I already knew what he was trying to say by tip-toeing around the words. Most of the men I know have told me their fathers didn't tell them anything about sex or girls at all. The most advice my best friend got from his dad was to "wear a condom."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20470085

""" The Screen and the Job have displaced almost everything else is our lives. Loneliness is just a primary symptom.

The Screen, whether it’s TV, computer, or phone, has supplanted almost all social interactions. This manifests itself in things like SitComs on TV (just a bunch of friends or family hanging out) or Social Media on phones. It’s very easy to fill the social needs of right now with a Screen. But under even a minuscule amount of self reflection these are revealed as hollow substitutes for real human interaction.

The Job has completely taken over as a driving force in evaluating choices. The average person has to consider all options in the light of both the current employer and the specter of tomorrow’s. Moving across the country for a high paying job? Great! Moving to be closer to friends? That’s a career killer.

No wonder we are lonely. We make choices in the short term that optimize happiness, often at the expense of our relationships. Ghosting is not just for dates now. Then turn around and make choices in the long term that optimize employability at the expense of all else. """

I'm the last person to denigrate the importance of online communities, most of my closest friends don't live in my city. There is, however, a very real and important role for communities tied to your geography.

For one, the "self-sorting" effect is less exaggerated in IRL communities. Sharing a space with people, not because you are similar, but because you live near by and perhaps share the same interests, anchors you to your physical reality. Now, that comes with hardy cons as well as pros (especially if you are like to be discriminated against), but the cons of aggressively self-sorting online are pernicious as well.

If this resonates with you, I have a humble suggestion. If you can mentally/physically afford it, join _any_ IRL community. Volunteering is a good way to do this, organised sports, join a amateur radio club, go to a hackerspace meet-up. If you're in NA and most places in the EU, COVID restrictions might make this more possible than you think.

To those struggling with online dating: stop and get out in the real world. It's easier, trust me. Don't believe the people who are trying to tell you otherwise. Not only you don't need these apps, they are likely the reason you're not getting much sex.

Recently, I tried watching How I met your father. Felt like an ad for a certain online dating service. It was absolutely horrible in every conceivable way. Don't surrender to those people.