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Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

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Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#711
Looks like you're only focusing on the technical side. New research (link below) shows that recruiting for "soft skills" is more important, esp. for senior positions. My company quantifies values like empathy, agility & disruption and measures applicant value alignment with org culture. Reach out if you'd like more info.

HRB article: https://hbr.org/2022/06/the-c-suite-skills-that-matter-most

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#712
Try something like Hired.com. It takes time and energy for people to seek out and apply to jobs. On Hired, people have a profile just seeing what’s out there, are open to interviews and will already have posted their salary and their interests. You apply to them instead of hoping they apply to you.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As something of a counterpoint, a literal 4-hour assignment isn't that bad--especially as an alternative to a day of interviews. As a counter counterpoint, that only makes sense if the candidate is applying to a single place. If the candidate has lined up 4 interviews, they're not going to get 16 hours in the week to complete them. The fifth place that has no 4 hour interviews will get the candidate.

What sucks though is when companies say 4 hours but then give extra credit to projects that clearly took more than 4 hours. I did a take home project for Netflix that didn't have a time box IIRC - but something like "no more than a few hours". The task was to code a few movie poster carousels w/o using a web framework. Basically to create your own mini-higher level framework paradigm from vanilla JS or a low-level fr…

This kind of frustration is what got me into writing open source. I wanted an open body of work to point to that I could reuse from one employer to the next that proved I knew wtf I was doing.

It also let me weed out the weirdly numerous companies who threw 8 hour assignments over the wall but apparently lacked the time to spend 10 minutes looking at my open source projects.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what exactly OP is assigning to applicants, but in my experience a "four hour" coding assignment can be completed in an hour or two - and they don't have to be consecutive hours, it just means four hours is your limit and you have a few days or a week to complete it in.

In my experience a (not timeboxed) 4 hours coding assignment will actually take at least a day. Is not necessary malicious from those companies, they just underestimate the time their test take.

This is why I prefer in person coding exercises. You can do 1-1.5 hours of a "4 hour timeboxed coding assignment" and the interviewer will usually be happy that theyve seen enough and that you're not too slow coz they watched you do it.

Thats 3-8 hours of your life back.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#715

POST THE SALARY. Senior people are senior because of their work experience, which they gain from steady employment. Almost by definition you are looking to entice busy, employed people away from their current jobs. They don’t have the time or inclination to trawl through job ad after job ad. Where your competition will ask for 15 years of experience and then only after hours of calls and meetings reluctantly make an…

Strongly agree, when I was looking for a job in the 2 month timeframe, perhaps only 5% of the jobs descriptions had a salary range. I am currently working for a FAANG company, where the first thing that the recruiter talked about was the salary.

Devils advocate a little, it’s easy for faang to lead with salary because they know (and we know) they can afford to outpay everyone else. I think obviously all should include ranges, but there’s a reason mega tech is leading the change here

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#716
post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

The thing with 4hr technical assignments is that you're saying no to anyone with kids, which I'm going to venture applies to more senior people than juniors. I used to do these assignment. Now I simply don't sorry. My schedule is 6:30 AM wake up with youngest daughter, to let wife sleep in (she takes care of her all night) 9:00 AM hand off youngest daughter to wife, who takes both girls the rest of the day. I go to m…

I was feeling like s..t for not returning to assignment to one of these companies. I had a week and still didn't find time. I'm just not going to accept them in the future, it makes me look bad for no good reason.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#717

I am going to add one thing that I haven't heard here. You probably need to raise the cash in your offer by a lot. Most mid-size companies think that they can get away with offering equity at a ridiculous valuation and attract people who aren't true believers. Most people aren't true believers in miscellaneous DevOps that doesn't involve a lot of code. I have spoken to a few series-C and D companies that wanted to gi…

PSA: For those who don't fully understand the second paragraph above, be sure to google 'liquidation preference' before you're next evaluating an offer that includes equity or options in a private company.

I've never been at a company that was quite so liberal with their term sheet. Small or large, nobody wants to talk about it. My last place had a bunch of bickering in their allhands for a few months over total diluted outstanding and similar relevant equity metrics being kept secret.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#718
post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a lot of people who have degrees have no clue how to code I don't understand how this is possible. I know CS != coding, but every CS degree syllabus I've looked at does involve plenty of programming classes, practical programming projects, etc. How is it possible to graduate from that without being reasonably comfortable writing non-trivial stuff in a couple of major languages?

It works like this: Step 1. The academics are themselves not that good at coding or teaching, and/or aren't interested in them. This might sound contradictory for a CS course, but at my university (as an example) the CS dept was run by a guy whose actual background was in mathematics. He loved hiring graph theory researchers and didn't like hiring people who knew programming. Step 2. They try to teach programming to…

> They find ways to cover up the fact that nobody is learning to code properly

Aha, so the secret summary is that:

Both students and teachers want the students to succeed,

so they cheat together, to make that (seem to) happen

> A few of the tricks they used

Thanks for writing about that, really interesting to read (!)

> cheating was rampant

(You don't happen to know about some websites being used for that? I recently found out about studypool dot com.)

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 11:00 PM sleep until 6:30 the next day Dude, if your wife is getting up multiple times a night, you really ought to consider stepping in and helping out. True males can't do the feeding, but if there is anyway you can help out with this, I guarantee your wife will be grateful. If your kids sleep then ignore this, but sleep deprivation is hell (to most people). My wife and I both worked and we slept in 4 hour shifts…

My wife doesn't work. I sleep with our older daughter. My wife and baby co-sleep. Babies sleep much better when they're nursing, but it does mean my wife gets more interrupted sleep, which is made up for by the amount of sleep she gets each night, which is much more than me. This arrangement works for our marriage. We made a conscious decision early on to not both work.

We did the same. I had to sleep otherwise my job would have been unmanageable. It's one thing to move furniture, or be a manager, and it's completely different to have to actually write complex code and deal with hard engineering problems while sleep deprived.

P.S. My wife is now back on track with her career while being very happy about having spent all those early years with our kids.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want senior devs to apply post that your total comp is somewhere in the 300k-400k range. Even that's too low for senior folks with the skillset that OP is looking for, particularly if he wants the senior engineer to be mentoring and uplifting the rest of the team. Those skills can easily get $500k+ TC.

Can you point to these jobs that pay 500k+?

I'm currently a Staff 2 at VMware making that much doing DevOps for multiple SaaS services.
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