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Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

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Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#301

Disclaimer: Dentist here (and programming enthusiast) The other side of the story, that nobody really talks about, is the psychological abuse that -dentists- are subjected to, by patients. As an introduction: I was above average at my uni in terms of clinical and theoretical skills, bought my own practice from a retiring dentist and always behaved 100% ethically (I'm one of those that don't overtreat at all and I bui…

IANAD, but I work at a dental clinic, so I certainly empathize with your complaints. If you don't mind a few suggestions?

If you have a certain profile of patient who often break their appointments, you can simply double-book a certain percentage of them. That is, if you need to schedule three such patients, have two come at 1 PM and the third come at 2 PM. If you expect that one will break, you'll still take care of the other two in two hours. (adjust these times if you are faster or slower) If neither of the 1 PM patients break, or especially if none of them break, somebody will have to wait for a bit. So what? You're a dentist; your time is more valuable than your patients'. If one of these patients gets pissed about this, that's two strikes against her since she is already more likely to break appointments. You don't need a patient with two strikes.

Patients who don't have insurance or who have insufficient insurance (granted, this latter situation is sometimes hard to know in advance) have to pay when they receive service. If you explain this before the work is done (since you have informative treatment plans, patients are never surprised by a bill), then someone who doesn't pay can be referred to the prosecutor for fraud.

Never run "payment plans" through your office. Always use an outside agency like CareCredit or Lending Club. If they won't loan the patient money, then you certainly shouldn't. You do have to pay these firms, so if your schedule is full then nobody gets credit. If your schedule isn't full these fees come out of the marketing budget. If you try to handle loans yourself you'll end up paying more.

Procedures that require lab work are billed on the first appointment, and the patient has to pay half in order for the case to be sent to the lab. You explain this ahead of time, and if you're using the right labs (hint: most of them are in China) you'll still make a profit if someone breaks the second appointment.

The effective dentists I've seen have set up policies that automatically handle bad patient behavior without need for argument or personal involvement. These policies can change based on your experience. You shouldn't be on the front line of implementation, however. The people you have on the phone have to be able to schedule defensively, so you won't be sitting around with no patients. The person you have handling treatment plans has to properly communicate payment terms before you begin expensive procedures. You might have to get involved with particularly evil patients, but if you don't have to address these problems for most patients you'll probably avoid some frustration. Good luck!

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was 21, my dentist recommended removal of my wisdom teeth. I asked why, he said because they are difficult to clean, and so I'd lose them anyway by 30. I switched dentists. I'm old now, still have those teeth, and they are the healthiest teeth in my mouth. If you want to keep your teeth, 1. get an electric toothbrush 2. brush for the full 2 minutes, twice a day 3. floss twice a day, gently (overdoing it will e…

There is no reason to floss twice daily. This doesn't even really make sense - what would you be flossing out in the morning upon waking? Flossing once per day is plenty. You also need not use a 'rubber pointy thing' - proper flossing goes just below the gum line and will get everything you need removed. Super agree that you should get an electric, though. Heck, I switched from an oral-b to a phillips sonicare and my…

> what would you be flossing out in the morning upon waking?

Bacterial colonies.

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#303
post #169

What I can't understand is how dental managed to escape medical coverage, not just in the US but seemingly globally. Just this year the main confederation of Swedish labor unions will be pushing for consolidation of dental into medical but... how did we even get here, especially considering how fragmented the dental industry seems to be (mostly comprised of small private practices with some public ones to supplement.…

If it were part of medical, I'd expect to see most expensive procedures (that aren't already covered under medical) such as crowns, implants, and root canals wouldn't be covered because they'd be considered cosmetic given that extraction is usually an option. Routine dentistry is pretty inexpensive, especially in the context of medical costs generally. Any company dental plan I've ever had is mostly a tax advantaged…

That would be completely covered where I am... Anything that could create social or mental health issues like that would be. Maybe you should argue for better insurance than worse...

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I'd always heard the opposite but I do see a lot supporting what you say, so I removed that for now... Hmm.

Heh I thought you were going for a 2. "there is no step 2" joke, or suggesting that you could just remove all your teeth and then have no tooth problems anymore.

I mean yeah the solution is pretty much to eat zero sugary and acidic things... but that'd be a hard life these days.

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was 21, my dentist recommended removal of my wisdom teeth. I asked why, he said because they are difficult to clean, and so I'd lose them anyway by 30. I switched dentists. I'm old now, still have those teeth, and they are the healthiest teeth in my mouth. If you want to keep your teeth, 1. get an electric toothbrush 2. brush for the full 2 minutes, twice a day 3. floss twice a day, gently (overdoing it will e…

There is no reason to floss twice daily. This doesn't even really make sense - what would you be flossing out in the morning upon waking? Flossing once per day is plenty. You also need not use a 'rubber pointy thing' - proper flossing goes just below the gum line and will get everything you need removed. Super agree that you should get an electric, though. Heck, I switched from an oral-b to a phillips sonicare and my…

> There is no reason to floss twice daily. This doesn't even really make sense - what would you be flossing out in the morning upon waking?

The bacteria colonies re-establish themselves after 12 hours. I can also vouch for much better state of my gums when flossing twice a day.

> You also need not use a 'rubber pointy thing' - proper flossing goes just below the gum line and will get everything you need removed.

The rubber pointy thing gets in places the floss doesn't. I know this from experience. Pockets develop that the floss doesn't get in.

BTW, if you're young it's easy to dismiss all this advice. It takes decades for poor dental hygiene to catch up with one.

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#306

Throwaway because I run a large dental software company. Dentistry is practiced as a business focused on maximizing revenue. Dentists are routinely coached to deploy sales tactics to increase their treatment acceptance beyond what is needed. If you walk into a dental office, you need to protect yourself from being abused. A second opinion unfortunately puts you in the same position, but now with a new dentist who wil…

Is it just me or do dentists rarely if ever suggest that their adult patients change their diet to avoid dental caries? They probably still tell children "don't eat candy", but since I reached adulthood I don't think a dentist ever told me suggested that the reason I needed so many cavities drilled was because I was feeding bacteria in my mouth. If my experience is as ubiquitous as I suspect, there seems to be a perv…

Go to the dentist in France and they will warn you that without sealants you might get cavities. In the US most dentist don't even attempt to offer to adults the simple and cheap treatment that prevents 80% of cavaties.

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#307

Disclaimer: Dentist here (and programming enthusiast) The other side of the story, that nobody really talks about, is the psychological abuse that -dentists- are subjected to, by patients. As an introduction: I was above average at my uni in terms of clinical and theoretical skills, bought my own practice from a retiring dentist and always behaved 100% ethically (I'm one of those that don't overtreat at all and I bui…

IANAD, but I work at a dental clinic, so I certainly empathize with your complaints. If you don't mind a few suggestions? If you have a certain profile of patient who often break their appointments, you can simply double-book a certain percentage of them. That is, if you need to schedule three such patients, have two come at 1 PM and the third come at 2 PM. If you expect that one will break, you'll still take care of…

Thanks for taking the time to write the suggestions! I work in Europe so the situation is somewhat different here as insurance is used by a very small percentage of patients compared to the US, and I'd say 99% of other offices do not make patients pre-pay, so some of those policies, while probably very good in the US, do not fit our situation very well (the double-booking one I will probably try, though..I've always refrained from it in order to not make patients wait but I guess a little flexibility on both sides is OK).

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If mouthwash has harmful ingredients keeping it in your mouth for a prolonged duration and spitting it out instead of drinking it will not solve your problems, contrary to the quoted line. If an patient who is an outlier exhibits an extreme habit related to the affected cancerous organ, it seems advisable to take note even if it is possible there are undiscovered more serious contributing factors.

I mean, you are making a jump from correlation to causation. There is a reason science does not use anecdotes and relies on statistics, p values, and, confidence intervals. That being said, did you happen to know what ingredients were in play, since he was using the same product for ~>20 years it sounds like, maybe the carcinogen landscape was much more under researched that long ago? I mean leaded gas was still sold…

And why pray tell, should I disregard cancer specialists at Sloan Kettering telling this guy's entire family not to use mouthwash?

Many available common mouthwash still contain alcohol. Alcohol's causal effect on oral cancer is rarely disputed in medical circles.

If ample clinical studies are absent, science does in fact rely on reason time to time in the interim.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6982979/

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#309
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago, a friend of my cousin became a licensed dentist here in Sweden. My cousin had to remove a tooth and his friend gave him, I assume, a lower price because they're friends... He removed a tooth alright, but the wrong one (on the wrong side). And apparently my cousin just assumed he worked on fixing something else, realising the mistake way too late. I asked my cousin if he considered suing but he didn't…

Reminds me of people getting "THIS LEG" tattooed on the leg to be removed, perhaps something similar with a stick on tooth decoration could be worth it.

I used to live in Spain, and I remember being shocked when my doctor told me how common it was for people to have the wrong leg or kidney removed there. She was originally American, and implied there was a strong inverse correlation between the cap on malpractice damages and the number of incorrect organs/appendages detached. Honestly, although the American medical system is the pits, it gave me a better opinion of American tort law and made me believe that some of the seemingly superficial lawsuits in this country serve a better purpose of keeping the otherwise wild-west medical system in check.

[edit] just as a side note, I've noticed a strong trend here among people who also never "had a cavity" in another country until they were in the US

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