Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf]

thehangedman.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 173 posts

Re: Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf]

#91

Post by _carbyau_ »

spennant wrote: post #49
kurthr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, at least only the truly old school Nigerian snail mail scams will get to him! Seriously, if you have parents going into their 70s and 80s you need to really start limiting exposure to scams or the ability to send them money. Otherwise, you won't know until it's too late, their bank account is empty, and their CC are maxed out on cash advances. Also, immediately contact the IRS and Social Security, because they'…

My dad is in his 80’s and has all the tech. (computer, iPad, iPhone, etc…) Thing is, he doesn’t believe anything (true or false) from his devices. He just thinks that everything he reads is from someone trying to sell him something and/or part him with his money. I’m not sure if he’s wrong.

That "what are they getting from me" attitude is a filter I view the world in.

I didn't realise it until I went to my local library. I had a mental glitch until I realised I could drop my suspicions and relax. Was pleasant to simply be there.

Re: Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf]

#92

Post by throwaway675309 »

antod wrote: post #52
geocrasher wrote: post #8

The original Computer Vegan, complaining about the coal used to power a computer while at the same time using a typewriter that is made of steel that had to be fired and forged probably using coal. I'm not saying he's wrong, but unless he mines his own metal and has a solar powered forge, he's fooling himself.

Forging one (unpowered?) typewriter in many decades vs forging and powering all the computers you'd end up replacing over those decades to stay current? All the chemicals involved in making the electronics? The e-waste? A discarded typewriter would also leave very little behind aside from rust. While one option is not zero impact, it is still many orders of magnitude lower impact. They aren't equivalent, he wasn't fo…

At the same time he's basically looking at the equipment that just so happens to perfectly fill his desires (to be a writer) and justifying them by saying "well there's worse things out there."

Re: Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf]

#93

Post by jklm »

pessimizer wrote: post #88
jklm wrote: post #71

His arguments are, paraphrased: 1. It hurts nature. 2. It's too expensive and destroys existing jobs. 3. It's unlikely that it's better than the current tech. And that he won't fall for the "propaganda campaign" that says otherwise. --- What I find super fascinating here is that the arguments back then and now are...extremely similar. Look at any cutting-edge tech - EVs, crypto, etc. - and you find the same arguments…

Those arguments are directed at all tech that is bad, not just your pet technologies. They encompass all possible flaws of a thing. 1. It has negative externalities. 2. It's too expensive. 3. It's not an improvement/doesn't work. The fascinating thing is that people see these criticisms and it counterintuitively bolsters their confidence that their tech is special, because things that turned out to be special were al…

Well...yes. I think we're mostly in agreement that these arguments are meaningless because they can always be created, for every thing.

So the next time you hear an argument that falls into 1 of these 3 buckets, be skeptical both ways (for & against) because the mere presence of criticism can't be evidence of anything.

Re: Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf]

#94

Post by LaGrange »

iRomain wrote: post #27

I laughed so hard at Gordon Inkeles' response. Wendell Berry: My wife types my work on a Royal standard typewriter bought new in 1956 and as good now as it was then. As she types, she sees things that are wrong and marks them with small checks in the margins. Gordon Inkeles: Wendell Berry provides writers enslaved by the computer with a handy alternative: Wife - a low-tech energy-saving device. Drop a pile of handwri…

I too snickered at that reply. Then I scrolled, and found his answer adequate.

This doesn't mean that exploitation of women as unpaid labor is fake, it's _extremely_ rare. But, on the other hand, it's not inconsistent for someone suggesting _relying on your community_ to, you know, _accept help from said community_.

The issue with the unpaid labor of women isn't that we're helping our families, or even that we're not receiving monetary remuneration - it's that it's frequently non-consensual (in the sense that there's no safe possibility to refuse) and without any respect for women's agency.

And, you know - thinking about that this way - it's not like I never proofread a friend's manuscript. It's an interesting, and on many levels enjoyable activity. It's also a quite personal, even intimate, way of helping a friend.

Re: Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf]

#95

Post by windowsrookie »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #6

> My wife types my work on a Royal standard typewriter bought new in 1956 and as good now as it was then. This was written in the late 80s, but I'd guess they're still using that typewriter over 60 years after it's purchase. Not saying I completely agree with his whole essay, but there's not a lot of computing equipment still in use (or considered usable) from that era. > But the cost would not be just mone- tary. It…

I recently purchased a couple of old PowerBook G4's (the last models from 2005, so 17 years old) There is a community still making new software for these old PPC Macs, and a custom version of MacOS with modern updates including security patches was just released.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/sorbet-leopard-your-pow...

They have USB 2.0, so transferring files is no issue. They have Dual-Layer DVD drives, not floppies. I brought the PowerBook with me to a hotel and was able to connect to their still active 802.11g Wifi. It browses sites like hacker news almost as well as a modern laptop. Although, Javascript brings it to a crawl. It can still edit video in Final Cut, make music in Logic 9, and play games like Halo 1.

Honestly any highly specced laptop made with a Core 2 Duo and up (so ~15 years old or newer) is still usable today.

Re: Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf]

#96

Post by MrYellowP »

Actually Wife is far more energy/work intensive than a computer. She requires constant maintenance, she has plenty of alarm bells that can't be turned off at all, her speaker constantly makes noise that can't be turned off either, costs way more to keep and, on top of all of that, has way more downtime.

Re: Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf]

#97

Post by dredmorbius »

stanski wrote: post #18
goosedragons wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most eReaders use Linux. Kobo still provides software updates for models reaching all the way back to 2011. For something like an English novel Epub 3 is backwards compatible enough that it'll still work fine enough even on something like a Sony PRS-505 that only does Epub 2. And there's loads of tools like Calibre to back convert files if need be. Really the battery is the only problem but some models do still have…

"All the way back to 2011" made me chuckle. Practically ancient times!

Until Kobo develop their Tardis, 2011 is a reasonable earliest support date. The Kobo eReader was first introduced in May, 2010.

And 11 years' support is much better than that of other mobile device manufacturers.

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/03/24/kobo-ebook-rea...

Via Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobo_eReader

Re: Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf]

#98

Post by dredmorbius »

Berry's nine standards for technology are worth considering:

1. The new tool should be cheaper than the one it replaces.

2. It should be at least as small in scale as the one it replaces.

3. It should do work that is clearly and demonstrably better than the one it replaces.

4. It should use less energy than the one it replaces.

5. If possible, it should use some form of solar energy, such as that of the body.

6. It should be repairable by a person of ordinary intelligence, provided that he or she has the necessary tools.

7. It should be purchasable and repairable as near to home as possible.

8. It should come from a small, privately owned shop or store that will take it back for maintenance and repair.

9. It should not replace or disrupt anything good that already exists, and this includes family and community relationships.

I'm not sure even his own tool choices (typewriter and wife) meet the criteria. The typewriter replaced the quill pen, and at least initially failed conitions 1, 4, 8, and 9.

There might also be other factors for consideration. I'm not prone to jump on the latest technologies, but do own several computers (and a typewriter). Net effectiveness, suitability to task, expansion of possibilities, and other factors are amongst those I'd consider. Many of Berry's concerns would seem to me to come from the realm of unintended consequences, and might be better considered in that light.

His is a useful meditation, whether or not you adopt its conclusions.

Re: Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf]

#99

Post by ezconnect »

microtherion wrote: post #61
iRomain wrote: post #27

I laughed so hard at Gordon Inkeles' response. Wendell Berry: My wife types my work on a Royal standard typewriter bought new in 1956 and as good now as it was then. As she types, she sees things that are wrong and marks them with small checks in the margins. Gordon Inkeles: Wendell Berry provides writers enslaved by the computer with a handy alternative: Wife - a low-tech energy-saving device. Drop a pile of handwri…

cf. E.W. Dijkstra in 1986: https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD09xx/E... I have often been asked why I don't use [Word Processors], and my honest answer has always been that there is for me so much to write that I cannot afford the use of these time-saving devices. Like Berry, Dijkstra took the existence of menial labor for producing printed or typed products for granted, although, to be fair, for m…

I also have problem recording my thoughts using a computer, writing by hand is more convenient for my brain than using a pc to write the sketch, math symbols and everything else it's just too convenient compared to any note taking device on a pc or tablet.

Re: Why I am not going to buy a computer (1987) [pdf]

#100

Post by totetsu »

pddpro wrote: post #42

People decry the energy wastage brought about by the Crypto Mining, rampant invasion of privacy & trust by mega corporations, ubiquitous presence of misinformation and vitriol in social media, mismanagement of e-waste, global climate change and the impending doom upon the entire human civilization, and a thousand things more, and yet find this article condescending. This is not to say that I agree entirely with it ei…

Our understanding of climate through global climate modelling would be nowhere without computing also.
Post reply on HN