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Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

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Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#601

Post by lrvick »

corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

I often have to ask people that have no code I can look at to do a take-home. I do not have a choice. What I do have a choice in is paying for their time at an above average rate I would pay a contractor, so they know I value their time.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#602

Post by d13 »

pnathan wrote: post #231
capableweb wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you get from a whiteboard/take home assignment that you can't get from a conversation where you grill them about their answers?

Conversations allow smooth talkers to run a snow job on you. Having a work sample test provides a best-in-class hiring filter.

Interview their referees and look at work they’ve done.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#603

Post by dehrmann »

corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

I agree, but if the assignment genuinely replaces an on-site and the recruiter and hiring manager make that clear, I'd consider it. If they don't, consider there doesn't seem to have been a technical phone screen, I'd assume it's just a first step, and I'd pass.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#604

Post by grepfru_it »

ghaff wrote: post #249
giaour wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So there's presumably some threshold where you can just have essentially a petty cash business expense. $600

How surprisingly sensible. :-)

Except now the IRS will be watching bank accounts for any transaction totaling over $600 to combat this loophole. Good luck!

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#605

Post by electrondood »

grepfru_it wrote: post #600
joshmanders wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s easy really. Walk. As a senior it’s insulting to expect to do a four hour take home test. When you hire a Michelin star chef do you make them make you a four course meal to prove they can cook? Do you make a surgeon do four hour surgery? It’s absolutely asinine that we accept this behavior in our industry. You’d be laughed at by every possible candidate in other industries.

Actors must audition before they are chosen for a role. Sometimes several times..

Yeah, these are called technical interviews, and they usually take an entire day. I spend at least a two weeks studying for these before every job search.

If I have 4 jobs in my pipeline that assign me 4 hours of homework each, that's 16 hours of bullshit I have to slog through in addition to my study time, prep work, and a solid week or two of whiteboarding. This doesn't include the recruiter's technical trivia screen and the codeshare screen. No thanks.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#607

Post by yashap »

corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

Agreed. As a datapoint, I’m fairly senior (staff SWE at 2 companies), and there’s absolutely no way I’d do a 4 hour take home assignment. I work long enough hours already, and when I’m considering a job move, I interview at multiple places. No way am I investing that much in a single “maybe” role, especially not when the job market is so excellent for experienced devs.

Also, re:

> Benefits and salary are good (though salary isn't posted in the ad)

If the salary is legitimately strong, you should post it.

In summary, as advice to OP:

- Put the salary in the ad

- Scrap the take home assignment

It’s still hard to hire legit senior devs, but those 2 changes will make it significantly easier.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#608

Post by topkai22 »

anon291 wrote: post #267
ghaff wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As something of a counterpoint, a literal 4-hour assignment isn't that bad--especially as an alternative to a day of interviews. If they give you the assignment and it's immediately obvious that it's actually a 20+ hour assignment, you can always just walk. When I worked for a technology analyst company, we would ask for writing samples--which most potential hires would already have. But, if someone didn't, they'd ha…

No it's not. When i do interviews in-person (even if virtual) , I get the benefit of meeting my future colleagues and learning more about the company. It's much more a two-way benefit, versus an assignment where only one party (the company) gets any information from the other (me). > When I worked for a technology analyst company, we would ask for writing samples--which most potential hires would already have. But, i…

Your last point is the most salient for me- I might be willing to do a long coding assignment if I’m already confident that the company has invested time in evaluating me individually and that an offer is likely, but I’m disinterested if I don’t believe I’m at a 30% chance or greater of getting an offer.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#610

Post by raverbashing »

Let me guess, the juniors are filtering the seniors out because they don't subscribe to the latest fads or are opinionated/more realistic about somethings that the juniors take as gospel

Also, the issue with most technical assignments I see is that they're judged much harshly than the actual work would be (including by the ones doing the assessment) and the fact that actual work is interactive and not a fire-and-forget (as the assignment is)

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