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Stop using app icons for political activism

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Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#141

Post by drewbug01 »

porknubbins wrote: post #136
drewbug01 wrote: post #112

The author didn’t bother to state which political statements they were upset about; neither did they bother to say something like “all of them,” which would have been trivial. So we are left to guess which political activism they find annoying. Given the timing, there’s a very good chance that it’s related to Pride month here in the US. It seems even more probable when you consider the context: very few companies cha…

The OP may well be opposed to the rainbow flag or not. The fact that they are not allowed to make a facially neutral “no politics on my home screen” statement without HN speculating about some political leaning seems to me to be a pretty clear example of how some progressive movements are encroaching on what used to be neutral space.

No post body was provided.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#142

Post by lom888 »

adamedw wrote: post #139
porknubbins wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP may well be opposed to the rainbow flag or not. The fact that they are not allowed to make a facially neutral “no politics on my home screen” statement without HN speculating about some political leaning seems to me to be a pretty clear example of how some progressive movements are encroaching on what used to be neutral space.

Quoted post unavailable.

In the USSR it wasn't enough to have art that was apolitical, it was seen as vital that art acted to actively support the creation of a socialist society, and those seeking to create art in a neutral space were viewed as being reactionary. Defining apolitical spaces out of existence denies people the space to come to their own conclusions

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#143

Post by drewbug01 »

rajin444 wrote: post #135
drewbug01 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your guess is probably correct. We all know why they aren't being explicit about it, right? Of course: there is significant risk to saying hateful and bigoted things outright, so folks resort to dog-whistling. > It's not vague at all, it's literally a flag. And it's not an acknowledgment of existence of some group. The most charitable interpretation is that it's a protest against heteronormativity, which many peopl…

> Of course: there is significant risk to saying hateful and bigoted things outright, so folks resort to dog-whistling. Conservatives make the same argument about things their in group finds important as well. Taking the lords name in vein, disparaging mohammed, etc. Your in group is in power so you’re able to speak power to truth, but it isn’t a principled or healthy stance. Society needs to learn how to tolerate di…

The juxtaposition between “Conservatives make the same argument” and “Your in group is in power” seems to imply that you think liberals are in power. I can assure you that they are not, at least not in the US. They are currently in power in name only, and structurally even that will be an unlikely outcome for the foreseeable future.

> Society needs to learn how to tolerate differing opinions.

Would you care to expand on those?

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#144

Post by trentthethief »

I will likely be downvoted but I agree with the author. Not only for app icons but anywhere.

For example, if I am searching a programming language documentation site I do not need to see a political banner.

There is a time and place for political discussion and expression. It is not on my phone screen or sites meant to get things done.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#145

Post by drewbug01 »

nicbou wrote: post #134
drewbug01 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I thought it was pretty clear that the author objected to it on principle. It isn’t clear whatsoever. It would have been trivial to mention the other, far more common reasons why app icons change and make a fairly politically-neutral argument. However, they did not choose to do so. In fact, they never even go so far as to say “and these political statements hinder my ability to recognize things visually.” But polit…

Why do you assume malice?

There isn’t any assumption of malintent. I’m not sure where you’d draw that conclusion from.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#146

Post by Nextgrid »

What I hate about this behaviour is that it’s pure virtue-signalling and surprisingly it’s always done by the most disgusting & morally-bankrupt companies ever, the same ones who will screw employees, customers & partners alike at every potential opportunity.

It feels similar to these YouTube personalities who film themselves giving money to the homeless and that’s not a coincidence; it “feels” that way because the motive is the same: virtue-signalling.

If you want to support a political cause, donate $$$ towards it and don’t even tell me about it. Changing a homescreen logo provides dubious value to the cause (especially to an already well-known one) in comparison.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#147

Post by rajin444 »

drewbug01 wrote: post #143
rajin444 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course: there is significant risk to saying hateful and bigoted things outright, so folks resort to dog-whistling. Conservatives make the same argument about things their in group finds important as well. Taking the lords name in vein, disparaging mohammed, etc. Your in group is in power so you’re able to speak power to truth, but it isn’t a principled or healthy stance. Society needs to learn how to tolerate di…

The juxtaposition between “Conservatives make the same argument” and “Your in group is in power” seems to imply that you think liberals are in power. I can assure you that they are not, at least not in the US. They are currently in power in name only, and structurally even that will be an unlikely outcome for the foreseeable future. > Society needs to learn how to tolerate differing opinions. Would you care to expand…

That you’re able to feel comfortable staying your opinions in public is evidence your group has won.

> Would you care to expand on those?

Freedom of speech within the rules of the law should not lead to one becoming a pariah. Morals are relative and change overtime which causes culture wars like the one we’re in now. It benefits all to reduce the impact of these wars - ie, when people are operating within the law they should not be punished.

This means that we need laws we can all agree on…but that is a much more solvable problem than the mob rule we currently have. The current social environment is might makes right.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#148

Post by lotsofpulp »

rajin444 wrote: post #135
drewbug01 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your guess is probably correct. We all know why they aren't being explicit about it, right? Of course: there is significant risk to saying hateful and bigoted things outright, so folks resort to dog-whistling. > It's not vague at all, it's literally a flag. And it's not an acknowledgment of existence of some group. The most charitable interpretation is that it's a protest against heteronormativity, which many peopl…

> Of course: there is significant risk to saying hateful and bigoted things outright, so folks resort to dog-whistling. Conservatives make the same argument about things their in group finds important as well. Taking the lords name in vein, disparaging mohammed, etc. Your in group is in power so you’re able to speak power to truth, but it isn’t a principled or healthy stance. Society needs to learn how to tolerate di…

> Conservatives make the same argument about things their in group finds important as well. Taking the lords name in vein, disparaging mohammed, etc.

Neither of those examples harms or affects another person. Preventing two people from entering into a contract because of their genders does affect others. That is the difference.

However, I do agree with the opinion that changing app icons for any non app related reason is stupid. There is no need for political signaling to affect usability, which changing an icon surely does.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#149

Post by vineyardmike »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #67
rbanffy wrote: post #2

How about no? If it's my app, I'll use my logo. I consider the logo an integral part of the application's identity and I should control its identity. I promise I'll do my best to make it easily and readily recognizable, regardless of it using national colors, a rainbow or shades of white, pink and blue. If you don't like it, it's your problem, not mine.

> If it's my app Not picking on you specifically, because this attitude is extremely common among software developers these days, but I think this mentality of treating software running on users' machines as "yours" rather than "theirs" is at the core of a lot of problems with the modern software industry. Software should serve the interests of its users, not its developers. The advent of ubiquitous internet connecti…

> Software should serve the interests of its users, not its developers.

The history of “rainbow washing” in corporate marketing material served the original purpose of saying “you’re welcome here”. There are many stores/places that choose to not serve queer people.

Publicly sharing that you will allow queer people to use your product is serving the interest of those users, but perhaps not the interest of every user. But the remaining users thankfully never had to question if they’d be served by that business, so there’s no need to signal anything to them.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#150

Post by drewbug01 »

rajin444 wrote: post #147
drewbug01 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The juxtaposition between “Conservatives make the same argument” and “Your in group is in power” seems to imply that you think liberals are in power. I can assure you that they are not, at least not in the US. They are currently in power in name only, and structurally even that will be an unlikely outcome for the foreseeable future. > Society needs to learn how to tolerate differing opinions. Would you care to expand…

That you’re able to feel comfortable staying your opinions in public is evidence your group has won. > Would you care to expand on those? Freedom of speech within the rules of the law should not lead to one becoming a pariah. Morals are relative and change overtime which causes culture wars like the one we’re in now. It benefits all to reduce the impact of these wars - ie, when people are operating within the law the…

I was asking “which opinions should society learn to tolerate.” Would you care to expand on those?

> Freedom of speech within the rules of the law should not lead to one becoming a pariah.

I’m not sure how you’d square that with the idea of “freedom of association.”

> Morals are relative and change overtime which causes culture wars like the one we’re in now.

Indeed. Your proposal would halt that process. Is that healthy? Who would that benefit, and who would that harm?

> It benefits all to reduce the impact of these wars - ie, when people are operating within the law they should not be punished.

And the law does not punish them. I don’t think it ethical or moral to enshrine such viewpoint protection in the law. No group should be able to legally force someone to like them.

And frankly, that’s not what’s happening today. Nobody is being legally forced to accept LGBTQ people.

> This means that we need laws we can all agree on…but that is a much more solvable problem than the mob rule we currently have.

I don’t know how you’d solve that problem, short of coercion.

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