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Stop using app icons for political activism

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Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#121

Post by mikkergp »

xisukar wrote: post #105
snowwrestler wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicizing the person is something that happens to some people against their will. For example people don’t choose to be gay, it just happens like being tall or having blue eyes. But in Florida there is a law now saying teachers can’t talk about gay people in school. Totally still fine to talk about tall people, though. This is why “Pride Month” is a big deal but tall people month is not. Gay people didn’t choose t…

>But in Florida there is a law now saying teachers can’t talk about gay people in school. If only you weren't misrepresenting the Parental Rights in Education bill[1] you'd have a point. There's no reason why a teacher needs to discuss sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc. with kindergartens, be that heterosexual or homosexual. That's a private matter that has no place in a classroom, less so in primary grad…

I wonder if there are actually any classrooms in America where gender identity or sexual orientation aren't discussed. Particularly in grade school. Particularly in a place like Florida.

Edit: actually if you’re up for a serious discussion, you mention gender identity shouldn’t be a topic in primary school. Sometimes I wonder if we have a shared meaning on the terms “gender identity” because I would love to send my kid to a primary school where gender identity isn’t discussed, but the idea is ludicrous, not because of its immorality, but it’s impossibility. gender is one of the most discriminating social institutions we have. Everything about the way our society is organized is designed to socialize Kids into a traditional gender identity, hell months before being born parents throw gender reveal parties to determine if a kid should like pink or blue, so what would this even look like? Same thing with sexual orientation by the way given the prevalence of prince winning over princess stories in childrens media.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#122

Post by cato_the_elder »

drewbug01 wrote: post #112

The author didn’t bother to state which political statements they were upset about; neither did they bother to say something like “all of them,” which would have been trivial. So we are left to guess which political activism they find annoying. Given the timing, there’s a very good chance that it’s related to Pride month here in the US. It seems even more probable when you consider the context: very few companies cha…

> So: odds are, the author is upset about having LGBTQ “activism” pushed on their devices.

Your guess is probably correct. We all know why they aren't being explicit about it, right? Someone here literally threatened that they "actively" won't hire me for commenting on this post :-)

> Specifically, remember that a vague assertion that LGBTQ people exist

It's not vague at all, it's literally a flag. And it's not an acknowledgment of existence of some group. The most charitable interpretation is that it's a protest against heteronormativity, which many people naturally support.

> is what some folks consider “political.”

Of course it is political, pretending it isn't is disingenuous.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#123

Post by drewbug01 »

lamontcg wrote: post #117
drewbug01 wrote: post #112

The author didn’t bother to state which political statements they were upset about; neither did they bother to say something like “all of them,” which would have been trivial. So we are left to guess which political activism they find annoying. Given the timing, there’s a very good chance that it’s related to Pride month here in the US. It seems even more probable when you consider the context: very few companies cha…

I thought it was pretty clear that the author objected to it on principle. I think I do as well, I don't really want all the icons on my phone changing colors and shapes every other day since that is just bad UX when I'm hunting for the right button. And when it comes to politics I don't want anyone else's politics pushed into my personal life when I don't expect to encounter it, even if I agree with it. It is partic…

> I thought it was pretty clear that the author objected to it on principle.

It isn’t clear whatsoever. It would have been trivial to mention the other, far more common reasons why app icons change and make a fairly politically-neutral argument. However, they did not choose to do so.

In fact, they never even go so far as to say “and these political statements hinder my ability to recognize things visually.” But politics, well - they brought up the concept no less than 4 times in the brief post.

What they did was leave it open for you to read your own perspectives into it.

> And you might want to be careful about asserting that anyone who doesn't like having a pride flag pushed in their face is automatically homophobic/transphobic.

I have taken great pains to avoid this very assertion. What I did assert was this: “it’s likely related to Pride month, and the author considers LGBTQ identities political.”

If you believe that “considering LGBTQ identities to be political” is a synonym for “homophobia”, you are welcome to that connection. It’s not unreasonable.

But again: my point is that my existence is indeed political. Whether the author supports my community or not isn’t the point I’m making, at all.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#124

Post by tonymet »

drewbug01 wrote: post #112

The author didn’t bother to state which political statements they were upset about; neither did they bother to say something like “all of them,” which would have been trivial. So we are left to guess which political activism they find annoying. Given the timing, there’s a very good chance that it’s related to Pride month here in the US. It seems even more probable when you consider the context: very few companies cha…

It could have just been a coincidence. every month has a movement of the month nowadays.

Also, you can have too much of a good thing. Doesn't mean said thing is bad.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#125

Post by musicale »

notriddle wrote: post #62
darklion wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that while you own your computer, you generally don't own the proprietary software on it, you _license_ it. That license entitles you to remarkably little beyond using the software as the software vendor permits.

I don't think FOSS protects you from political activism. Here's what comes up on my (Fedora, obviously) machine when I run VIM with no filename specified: VIM - Vi IMproved version 8.2.5052 by Bram Moolenaar et al. Modified by Vim is open source and freely distributable Help poor children in Uganda! type :help iccf for information type :q to exit type :help or for on-line help type :help version8 for version info Acc…

> No technical measures exist to stop you from removing this call for donations, but it's more work to patch it out then it is to just ignore it. This makes FOSS software a pretty good vehicle for political activism.

This doesn't bother me too much and I don't even seem to notice it consciously, but I am really glad that every utility doesn't have an unrelated charity pitch (or other advertisement) built into it. Though I think a number of GNU programs do contain free software advocacy messages/advertisements, those don't bother me too much either.

What really irritated me though was the nagware message in GNU parallel soliciting bogus citations (or money, which may be less ethically problematic but is still annoying.) I didn't hate it enough to fork the code and remove the nag message myself (or fight for it as a patch to the Debian packages or something) but I quit using GNU parallel because it left a bad taste. I imagine a nightmare Linux shareware edition distro where every program (and library, driver, kernel module, etc.) prints out a nagware message that you have to turn off.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#126

Post by barrysteve »

Conclusionist wrote: post #109
barrysteve wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the naive blindness. There is acres of christian art and media that simply doesn't register for the populace. People scroll by Jude Law as the Young Pope on Netflix and ignore the methodist Christian substructure of star wars. People can be told via memes that ObiWan is like space jesus and it's like water off a duck's back. Christianity doesn't oppress people, they can't even identify it, when it is infront…

1. You’re claiming Christianity is so normalized people don’t notice it. That’s exactly the point with pride. 2. Am I reading this right? You think LGBT people and pride is oppressing people more than Christianity?

1. Mcdonalds is 'normalized'. Everybody knows you can get a double quarter pounder at mcdonalds.

Christanity is not noticed. The public rarely knows the content of the faith it rejects. And the point is reinforced by the complete lack of knowledge about what it is and how pride might impact it, in this conversation.

2. "Normalization" and "oppression" are not words that mean what I'm talking about.

Christianity is "unknown" to the public and the LGBT politicians turn a blind eye to people they don't want to relate to. They are tripping over landmines they don't see. I pointed this out and was met with the same old desire to flee from relating to Christianity, as we see from lgbtq activists all the time.

Not everybody thinks pride is a good thing nor that it should be shoved in their face, thinking that media spam is going to result in political conversions is hopelessly naive to how faith functions, what christianity is and without mutual knowledge of one another's worldview, it'll never be resolved in love.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#127

Post by drewbug01 »

cato_the_elder wrote: post #122
drewbug01 wrote: post #112

The author didn’t bother to state which political statements they were upset about; neither did they bother to say something like “all of them,” which would have been trivial. So we are left to guess which political activism they find annoying. Given the timing, there’s a very good chance that it’s related to Pride month here in the US. It seems even more probable when you consider the context: very few companies cha…

> So: odds are, the author is upset about having LGBTQ “activism” pushed on their devices. Your guess is probably correct. We all know why they aren't being explicit about it, right? Someone here literally threatened that they "actively" won't hire me for commenting on this post :-) > Specifically, remember that a vague assertion that LGBTQ people exist It's not vague at all, it's literally a flag. And it's not an ac…

> Your guess is probably correct. We all know why they aren't being explicit about it, right?

Of course: there is significant risk to saying hateful and bigoted things outright, so folks resort to dog-whistling.

> It's not vague at all, it's literally a flag. And it's not an acknowledgment of existence of some group. The most charitable interpretation is that it's a protest against heteronormativity, which many people naturally support.

I disagree, completely. The most “charitable” interpretation is that it’s a vague, non-committal statement of support. The interpretation you mention is far more specific and - when phrased the way you did - antagonistic interpretation of things.

> Of course it is political, pretending it isn't is disingenuous.

Of course it is. We agree on that point. What we likely do not agree on is why: it is only political to me because other people choose to make it so. If folks just … let LGBTQ people exist, with full equality, there would be precious little political about it at all.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#128

Post by _-david-_ »

drewbug01 wrote: post #119
_-david-_ wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a few issues. Nobody (at least in the West) are denying LGBT people exist. Companies who put the flag up are just virtue signalling. If the app icon was changed for a single day for Juneteenth would you sympathize with the OP? The OP was not complaining about the actual political issue. He was complaining about changing the app icon to push their politics. The OP just wants to be able to easily find the app:…

Quoted post unavailable.

>They’ve moved on from denial, nowadays they say far more hateful things. [1]

All I was getting at is not having a rainbow or supporting a company who changes their logo or whatever doesn't mean somebody is denying the existence of LGBT.

>No, but it’s not for the kind of reasons you’re trying to get at with this kind of questioning. Fundamentally, I don’t much care about people changing their app icons for causes I support. And for causes I don’t support, I will simply uninstall their app if it bothers me at all. I feel no need to make noise about app icons in this way.

I'm not a fan of app icon changes. I don't care if it is for political or just a permanent changing of their logo. I have uninstalled apps which changed icons because it bothered me. I highly sympathize with the OP for those reasons. Changing for political reasons is worse since it is a temporary change and will go back to its original icon later, meaning there will be 2 icon changes in a short time period.

I think complaining about something seems reasonable. Look at various posts that make it to the front page on HN. Huge numbers of them are complaints about things many people don't care about. Maybe you don't think it is a big deal, but many of us do.

>I disagree with this assertion, but it isn’t possible to know. What the author did was say things like “I _might_ even agree…” (emphasis mine), which leaves plausible deniability either way.

Unless the OP states otherwise you don't know either. I don't like to make assumptions when the poster goes out of their way to not bring up the topic.

>But one thing that is certain is this: app icons change frequently, for non-political reasons. It would be trivial to even _mention_ that in the article, but the author did not

I think he was complaining about all icon changes in general and political changes in specific: "As part of that bargain, you have to identify your app visually so I can find it. To that end, I am happy to have on my device your logo or a picture that hints at what the app does."

>So while neither of us can prove it one way or the other, it certainly sounds like the real problem is the political messaging. Context is one of the most important parts of communication.

Unless his point was he doesn't like temporary app icon changes in which case complaining about a specific change would lead to proponents of that political view attacking him.

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#129

Post by mikkergp »

RicoElectrico wrote: post #76

Now that so many big corps change their logo colors to rainbow in July, I think it's no longer a strong statement. Not that it really was one, if certain locales were excluded from it. I guess ceasing business with countries which don't follow human rights requires too much courage.

Given that the GOP in Texas made the declaration that “homosexuality is an abnormal lifestyle choice” part of their platform, It’s probably nice for people to know which companies are at least not echoing that, even if it’s not full throated support. I doubt chik fila is changing their logo for instance

Re: Stop using app icons for political activism

#130

Post by imwillofficial »

RC_ITR wrote: post #87
imwillofficial wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure they told you how they feel. Why are you assuming things not stated? How is that helpful? Also, there is a Juneteenth flag? It’s a full time job to keep up these days.

>I’m pretty sure they told you how they feel. Why are you assuming things not stated? Again, was just pointing out that this article about 'Political Activism' is getting a ton of traction on the one day of the year when we (in America) recognize the historical oppression of both LGBT and black people. Am I missing a trend of app icons that recognize other 'political' causes? Because if the author is mad about rainbo…

“Am I missing a trend of app icons that recognize other 'political' causes?”

Yes.

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