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We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

mullvad.net

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Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#291

Post by tomnipotent »

wpietri wrote: post #290
tomnipotent wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And what businesses are hoping for are users that are paying without actually using their service All of them, from the local gym to Dropbox to Spotify. Subscription businesses can't make money if every consumer costs more to service than the revenue they generate. There's even an official accounting term for it, breakage. > Produce nothing, but get paid every month Failure to consume and get value from a subscript…

I am amazed that you can't see that approach as exploitative, and that your last line is victim blaming. If a company can't exist without tricking people into paying for something they get no value out of, maybe it shouldn't exist.

> can't see that approach as exploitative

You're getting all-you-can-eat from the business for a fixed price in exchange for predictable revenue as opposed to pay-as-you-go. That you think that's exploitative just tells me you don't understand the business model. You want to have your cake and eat it, too.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#292

Post by spartanatreyu »

nichch wrote: post #278
htgb wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. See the trial against the founders of The Pirate Bay for example, and the controversies surrounding it. Also, the FRA surveillance. Also, according to the ISP Bahnhof, the police at least used to submit lots of data requests without a court order and for non-serious crimes. AIUI, Bahnhof and other VPN providers stay in the clear by avoiding storage of data in the first place. They can be compelled to hand…

Could you elaborate on the Australian laws?

As an Australian, I may or may not be able to discuss said laws.

This should or should not tell you enough...

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#293

Post by nl »

meltedcapacitor wrote: post #62
skeeter2020 wrote: post #7

If you're familiar with the sizeable benefits of the subscription model for a business you'll recognize this is a big deal.

Are these benefits not eroding? Pressure on subscription models comes from both the public getting herd immunity against the underlying dark pattern and competitors chasing a diminishing supply of people to trick as world + dog has adopted the tactic. In this particular case, with a privacy tailwind, it will be unsurprising if it ends up increasing their sales.

Subscriptions aren't (in general terms) a dark pattern.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#294

Post by eszaq »

sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #118
rglover wrote: post #27

Wow. Hadn't heard of Mullvad before reading this, figured I'd give it a try. That is hands down the BEST onboarding experience for an app (let alone a VPN) I've had in I don't know how long. Took me maybe 2 minutes to go from no account to a working VPN connection. I love that everything is anonymous (down to the account credentials just being a randomly generated token).

> Hadn't heard of Mullvad before reading this Just the only vpn with any integrity left remaining, no biggie.

How about ivpn or perfect privacy?

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#295

Post by nl »

dcow wrote: post #220
s__s wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty simple. A VPN adds a layer of privacy between you and the server you’re accessing. You go from user A with X home IP address originating from precise Y location, to user A with generic shared IP originating from a vague location likely nowhere near your real location. Beyond location, did you know there are services that can sometimes accurately provide a users place of work based on home IP? Their likely…

But traditional ISPs reuse IP addresses too. You rarely get a static IP from your ISP. Some even run carrier grade NAT and you're literally sharing an IP with your whole building or something. VPNs are not really different in any regard. They do obfuscate location, I'll give you that, and that's seems like the crux of the issue with traditional ISPs: they are small and distributed so people have created location maps…

Most residential ISPs reassign the same IP to the same account for months at a time. It's not technically static but is certainly used as a "mostly static" piece of data by profiling technologies.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#296

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

slavak wrote: post #210
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely no way to know they are good and other is bad. The entire VPN industry is “trust us bro”. Which works until it doesn’t.

Would a 3rd party audit work? https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2021/1/20/no-pii-or-privacy-leak...

That’s very good. But what do I know about “Cure53” other than they are saying “Yea, trust them bro”.

Is Cure53 incorruptible? Would there be any blip in the world if they were not and Mull was really an NSA op?

I’m not saying I don’t trust Mull over say, Nord. I am saying the nature of the whole thing is non-falsifiable with our existing technologies. We can only determine who was lying by looking back after an incident, and most are kept secret.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#297

Post by nl »

wfhordie wrote: post #222
spupe wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not necessarily true. A lot of state surveillance comes through having backdoor or legal access to lots of services. Many VPNs have been tested in court on whether they actually have information on you to disclose, and some even have independent audits to verify that such information is not even kept.

At best, you can hope to make surveilling you more expensive or more inconvenient. But if Snowden taught us anything, it's that whatever you needed to do to get yourself tangled up in the 5/14 eyes trip-wire, you've already done, long ago, and continue to do. VPNs don't mean shit. You're leaking data everywhere you go. Browser fingerprinting, WiFi/BT signals, cell tower signals, GPS. If you own a smart phone and a cr…

There's a big difference between getting caught up in a 5-eyes dragnet vs some local police investigation vs a copyright subpoena.

A VPN headquarted offshore that will only respond to local subpoenas with local legal representation is pretty good protection against the second two.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#298

Post by CSMastermind »

banana_giraffe wrote: post #203
simias wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also like that they let you download the raw wireguard config files so that you can connect without having to use their client. You can just plop them onto your filesystem and use wg-quick to get going. Since I'm also a ProtonMail user and I considered switching to them for VPN as well but their python client doesn't seem to work correctly on my Arch Linux install and it doesn't give me anything useful to debug it…

Be aware, at least Nord clearly does something different with their client than with the OpenVPN files they provide ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21664692 ). When I dug into this, I found similar cases with other major VPN providers, but my notes are sufficiently out of date, they shouldn't be trusted anymore. Sometimes the differences are subtle, sometimes they're rather complex like this case. Personally,…

> ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21664692 )

Is there any proof of this? It seems like the original author was wrong and deleted the article.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#299

Post by StopHammoTime »

sph wrote: post #218
rglover wrote: post #27

Wow. Hadn't heard of Mullvad before reading this, figured I'd give it a try. That is hands down the BEST onboarding experience for an app (let alone a VPN) I've had in I don't know how long. Took me maybe 2 minutes to go from no account to a working VPN connection. I love that everything is anonymous (down to the account credentials just being a randomly generated token).

Of all their features, I love that they have an Android TV app so I can watch F1TV on my couch. They're worth more than the 5 euros I give them per month.

OH MY GOD. I've had to stop watching F1 in Australia because the only app that has licensing is like $27.50 a month and I don't love it that much.

This is a fantastic idea! Thanks mate!

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#300

Post by tomnipotent »

wpietri wrote: post #289
tomnipotent wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're asking for is a la carte access while still getting discounted subscription pricing, pushing all the risk onto the business. Consume as much as you want, but pay nothing when you don't. Sounds like a crap deal for the business.

For anybody who offers a month-to-month subscription, I'm not asking for anything other than them not taking money they're not earning. You have a point with, say, annual subscriptions. But for services where there's no cost to the vendor for an unused subscription, maybe that's ok, as there an annual subscription could much more easily be a dark pattern. I also think pushing the risk of "the customer doesn't actuall…

Absolutely there's cost to the business even if you don't use the service. There's marketing, salary, healthcare, leases, and any other number of expenses. Gym's pay rent regardless of you showing up. Netflix still has pay for content you don't watch.

The entire point of a subscription model is that a business can offer a steeply discounted price vs. pay-as-you-go in exchange for predictable, recurring revenue. That's the only way the model works.

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