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Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

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Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#321

Post by lbrito »

jen20 wrote: post #311
lbrito wrote: post #201

I don't get the hate on take homes. Also what's with the downvotes? At least you could help me see your point of view by explaining. If anything they are much more time efficient than the alternative - grinding dozens of hours of leetcode in preparation of live coding challenges. In my experience that is pretty much the sole alternative. There usually is a generous time frame for take homes of at least a couple of we…

The downvotes are likely because of the false dichotomy you present.

Like I said,

>In my experience that [code challenges] is pretty much the sole alternative.

I would love more options but I can only speak based on my own experiences. I've gone through many interviews and only once have any of them escaped this "false" dichotomy. To me, and I suppose many others, it is not false.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#322

Post by geekbird »

mattbee wrote: post #56
throw1138 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a throwaway because I'm just an engineer on the team wondering if there's something obvious we're doing wrong, and I don't imagine this would be considered desirable attention by management. Would posting a job ad on AskHN requesting feedback be acceptable? I ask because I'd have expected to see it a bunch if it were. @dang would be very appreciative of your word one way or another. Thanks mattbee.

Ohhhh OK. I'd say don't post your actual ad because we will find you and give you more help than you wanted ;) Like maybe your team page is all white men, or your defence contracts are very prominent, or your CEO is a public dong. It's a bit of a yellow flag that you don't feel you can go to your managers with this to help fix a team you're obviously invested in? But here's two tips that you might be able to implemen…

This also includes being very, very, very upfront on whether your "remote" is: a) real, honest 100% remote, b) 100% remote unless you are within X miles of the office, in which case it's hybrid, c) hybrid that your management thinks is "remote", d) "remote until..." which means you will be called back into the office at the C-suite's whim, or e) on-site unless you are sick or have to meet a repair person at home.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#323

Post by vsareto »

corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

>actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors

I like how things are confusing enough to need this distinction, but also we still don't know if you're talking about actual seniors and not principal engineers

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#324

Post by scarface74 »

> Benefits and salary are good (though salary isn't posted in the ad)

“I understand that most people are interested in working to exchange labor for money to support their addiction to food and shelter. But we don’t post how much money we are willing to exchange for said labor and I wonder why I can’t get qualified candidates who are interested”

Does that about sum it up?

And on top of that you expect me to do a take home assignment as a “senior” employee when even public companies that offer cash and RSUs (not lottery tickets - ie “equity”) only require a 5 hour interview loop?

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#325

Post by Wowfunhappy »

bspear wrote: post #306
pclmulqdq wrote: post #244

I am going to add one thing that I haven't heard here. You probably need to raise the cash in your offer by a lot. Most mid-size companies think that they can get away with offering equity at a ridiculous valuation and attract people who aren't true believers. Most people aren't true believers in miscellaneous DevOps that doesn't involve a lot of code. I have spoken to a few series-C and D companies that wanted to gi…

Yes, valuations have gone through the roof, but the equity grants have not kept pace. This is a huge disservice to candidates. Got especially bad in 2021. Really important for people to research startup pay before signing: https://topstartups.io/startup-salary-equity-database/ To the OP: if you believe your comp bands are competitive, why not share in the posting itself?

> To the OP: if you believe your comp bands are competitive, why not share in the posting itself?

Leaving that out makes it clear that the post was made in good faith. If I thought the submission was just a job ad in disguise, I might have flagged it.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#326

Post by s0rce »

jiggawatts wrote: post #314

POST THE SALARY. Senior people are senior because of their work experience, which they gain from steady employment. Almost by definition you are looking to entice busy, employed people away from their current jobs. They don’t have the time or inclination to trawl through job ad after job ad. Where your competition will ask for 15 years of experience and then only after hours of calls and meetings reluctantly make an…

I've tried to advocate for this at my organization and been told that we don't want people primarily motivated by money...

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#327

Post by crackinmalackin »

I'm in between jobs at the moment and a lot of people here are commenting with some very reasonable hiring practices that I actually haven't seen out in the wild yet. From what I'm seeing, the take home assignment process is getting out of control.

The take home assignment process seems to vary wildly between different companies. One place wanted me to complete a take home assignment that was estimated to take between 30 - 40 hours. Another startup had me come in for a 3 hour interview, and then asked me to take home assignment after the onsite interview. Hard pass.

I think I still prefer the take home assignments over the leetcode misery. But, candidates like myself will quickly find themselves having to pick and choose which ones they want to complete because some are just asking way too much.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#328

Post by cercatrova »

techdragon wrote: post #153
pcthrowaway wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're moving to 1-stage interviews, offer on the same day. Higher risk but we have no choice Anecdotally, I've seen people actually been put off by this. Perhaps make it 2 interviews just to not seem desperate. It's not my own reaction, but I could see why people might think "They're really desperate, there must be something wrong there"

The counter to this is not extra interviews but increasing the importance of the people in the interview. A one pass, 60 minute interview with the CEO and/or CTO on the call tells me a lot more about the kind of company. One of the reasons I went independent consultant/freelancer is because I no longer face hiring bullshit like multiple interview rounds. I don’t charge to discuss the problems, sign an NDA if need be,…

> A one pass, 60 minute interview with the CEO and/or CTO on the call tells me a lot more about the kind of company.

Depends, if I had this, I'd think, why is the CEO spending time in an interview instead of running the company? Sure, it's part of their job but after a certain scale of company size, it makes me think they must truly be desperate if the company is bringing out C-level executives to interview.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#329

Post by crackinmalackin »

That hiring process doesn't sound too bad to me. I know some people are iffy on the take home portion though. I'm looking for work at the moment, 5+ years as a Frontend web dev. React.js, Typescript and lot's of good CSS skills if anyone is in need send me a message.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#330

Post by geekbird »

mr90210 wrote: post #316

I personally tend to ignore positions that don’t post the salary range. I’ve been burnt before by not knowing how much can the job actually pay.

Seriously.

I applied for one position who asked what I wanted, then told me that the top of their range was $5K less than my minimum, was I still interested? LOL, no. My minimum is my minimum now, no dropping it for a hard luck story or company in a cheaper area. Been there, done that, burned that t-shirt.

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