Why aren’t your juniors becoming seniors? Why do so many get rich fast companies do that? You’re cutting the talent pool.
In a lot of companies juniors don't get mentored enough, burn out due to low pay, and leave for greener pastures.
Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
91–100 of 794 posts
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#92> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing
This one should be paid, I would ignore this one if I am going thru other applications, if the salary is good I'd mention it before bringing up any 4-hours technical assignment.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Remote is in the title of the post and mentioned multiple times throughout the post. I dare say we're not posting frequently enough, that's a good point. It's against company policy to put the range in the ad. Very very stupid, but probably nothing I can do about that. We have three languages mentioned in the ad. But any senior candidate can be introduced to new technologies so they're not in the "requirements" secti…
> It's against company policy to put the range in the ad. Very very stupid, but probably nothing I can do about that. This is already against the rules in CO and soon WA and NYC. Your company may as well get use to posting ranges. Ranges are also thought of to lead to more equitable outcomes for those working at the company.
I am in CO and saw one ad that had a link to a special page on their website to "comply" with this regulation. It was a blanket statement that salary can be between $20k (can't remember the low end but it was something like that) and $1MM based on position and experience. I was very put off by that and did not apply. I didn't take the time to look into the legality of using a blanket statement like that but it seems sketchy to me.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
How much someone is making now is not part of the analysis on if they would be a good hire. I wouldn't even ask this within the process.
Let's set aside whether it's explicitly screened for or discussed. If, hypothetically, you knew what they were making, either as a dollar figure or implicitly because of their previous/current job description, what would be the minimum? I'm asking something which necessarily has an answer, even if you won't answer it. I'm asking about the limits to your imagination - where is the boundary between a plausible hire and…
I don't even know how to respond to your line of thinking here. You've already stated that if I tell you the truth, then I'm lying, because the truth isn't true.
You clearly have an issue you've experienced that bothers you, and you are critically concerned with it. That makes sense. Best of luck to you.
It doesn't change the reality which is in my case, in the situation I'm discussing, the previous salary of the person applying is a completely irrelevant part of the hiring process.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#95I would offer to compensate for the 4h assignment. That's a huge time commitment and basically means a 1/2 day on the weekend or evening to complete. They'll have lots of options if they're good and will drop annoying assessments like this if they don't feel it's worth the time.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lol, take home technical assignment. Why would I ever? I'd much rather have a comfortable conversation with someone who has worked with me in the past. I'm never, ever doing a 4 hour assignment for you.
Agree, I will laugh at you asking me to do anything at home before we have a contract
Like... interview?
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a throwaway because I'm just an engineer on the team wondering if there's something obvious we're doing wrong, and I don't imagine this would be considered desirable attention by management. Would posting a job ad on AskHN requesting feedback be acceptable? I ask because I'd have expected to see it a bunch if it were. @dang would be very appreciative of your word one way or another. Thanks mattbee.
Ohhhh OK. I'd say don't post your actual ad because we will find you and give you more help than you wanted ;) Like maybe your team page is all white men, or your defence contracts are very prominent, or your CEO is a public dong. It's a bit of a yellow flag that you don't feel you can go to your managers with this to help fix a team you're obviously invested in? But here's two tips that you might be able to implemen…
> Have future managers & engineers communicate directly, lightly backed up by HR if you have that function (and you trust them). Keep. It. Moving. Make it clear their time is more valuable than yours.
Yeah, this.
Not that I dislike recruiters or HR folks or don't appreciate the work they do, but with someone with engineering experience I can talk to them on an equal level and don't need to "dumb down" describing my skills or past experiences, and I can usually be a lot more straightforward and/or have an actual conversation instead of reading my CV out loud, which is what a lot of initial screenings are like (it's okay to use the CV as a starting point for the conversation). Talking to an engineer is also a signal I'm being taken serious as a candidate.
I get that people use recruiters for an initial screen, but if it's "recruiter → another recruiter → HR person → coding test → finally I talk to a damn engineer (or engineering lead)" then that's a bit of a turn-off. At this point you're expecting me to spend time to "prove" my technical skills and I don't even know if I want to work for you because I have no idea what your engineering is like beyond the buzzwords your HR people dropped (which is very little information).
If you've got more candidates than you know what to do with then that's fine, but if not... Using a recruiter for the initial (short) screening is fine to go through some basic preconditions from both sides, but the second person should really be an engineering lead if you're desperate for people IMHO.
If you do insist on a code test and you intent on hiring the person if nothing strange comes falling out then say so. A lot of times I have the impression these things are shotgunned to a bunch of candidates.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
People say this and I have yet to find a company that doesn't do some kind of technical assessment. But I have seen multiple coworkers with 10-20 years of experience as software engineers with glowing recommendations get fired because they couldn't write software. So I'm a little happier to have some bar for myself and coworkers to clear. > I'm never, ever doing a 4 hour assignment for you. Boo hoo, you need to spend…
You're not responding in good faith with your "boo hoo" comment. No one is crying here. The point here is there are many, many companies that don't require a 4 hour take home technical assessment, and thus people can decide to do them or not. The post is about this topic, so the responses are about the topic. You think that 4 hour take home technical assessments are a reasonable filter. Awesome, you are a person who…
Exactly the point they're missing - if everyone does it, it's part of the shit sandwich you have to eat. But if you're the only one doing it, there are entire classes of applicants that will pass you by.
Hiding that you're going to spring it on people should give you numbers, by the people who ghost you the moment it appears, if you wanted to test for it.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a great point. I cannot imagine doing a real interview at this point. I decided to do one the last time I was job hunting just to see what the world has to offer. I was interviewed for a position, and was clearly perfect, but I couldn't get that across to more than half of the people interviewing me. I had some people in my corner, but others were concerned I wasn't technical enough which is hilarious. Why wo…
Yeah at startups we called those people "pushons". Basically, the CTO would say hey, "this is eric, s/he starts tomorrow". Mercenaries. Pros. No interviews, no questions, no linked ins. Usually "pushons" turn into top performers. With a 6 month runway and cash being burned - we didn't have much time for fizzbuzz.
Exactly. There is no hiring better than the ones you have experience with already. You know what you're getting.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#100> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.
Lol, take home technical assignment. Why would I ever? I'd much rather have a comfortable conversation with someone who has worked with me in the past. I'm never, ever doing a 4 hour assignment for you.
But isn't the alternative to take home assignment leetcoding on whiteboards? Last time I was interviewing in the US market was in 2017 and it was literally just these two options. And the assignments tended to be long - like a week long.
(tbh there were a few companies that pre-offered and just wanted one general discussion round with the team but they felt shady and desperate, and one was a literal consultancy)
Could someone articulate what's the norm now for non-FAANG pure-tech companies? I might go back to the open market next year after grad school since I don't have much of a network in Canada.
(I have decent 10y+ experience at startups and a unicorn, in both big data analytics and full stack applications and I'm good at system design, take home assignments and even live coding but really suck at physical white boarding complex algorithms with someone literally watching over me)