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The integrated timetable of Switzerland

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Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#131

Post by Leherenn »

misja111 wrote: post #91
runeks wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Man it costs a lot of money to maintain this, but Switzerland will continue to invest heavily into rail service, backed by the public: https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/rail ... Isn’t it paid for through ticket fees? Or is it subsidized by the state?

The Swiss rail company, SBB, is owned by the state. In 2021 it made a loss of 325 million CHF, which is about 3.3% of its total turnover. So it's paid mostly through ticket fees and for a small part by the state.

I think that's incorrect, public funding is included in revenues. In 2021, out of ~10B revenues, 4B came from state aid. In terms of operating income, traffic revenues are roughly equal to public sector funding.

See https://reporting.sbb.ch/en/finance?highlighted=8e222679f50e...

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#132

Post by jlelse »

xenonite wrote: post #99
ls15 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it even more amazing that there are more people who have a Generalabonnement than a Bahncard 100 (the German equivalent which is a bit cheaper). GA costs about 50% of a typical monthly Swiss salary. BC100 costs about 100% of a typical monthly German salary.

Germany has a 8.7 times larger area, and a 7.4 times longer rail network though.

Yes, but in Germany you probably don't travel 8 times as much.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#133

Post by Leherenn »

jeffbee wrote: post #106
londons_explore wrote: post #52

Switzerland is a very rich country per capita. It can afford to spend a lot on public transit to get a very good service. That's important to remember when wondering if these ideas could be applied to your country.

It has approximately the same GDP per capita as the San Francisco Bay Area, while having also about the same population, but more than double the land area. And yet, while I could take a direct train from Basel to Zürich in less than an hour, the similar trip from Berkeley (comparable in size to Basel) to San Jose (much larger than Zürich) would require a minimum of 1 transfer and take over 2 hours. Our trip isn't ev…

Not sure how you got that 17CHF, that's the price I get for a single trip with the half fare card (IC3). Full price would be 34CHF each way.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#134

Post by doctor_lollipop »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #58
Stevvo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However you look at, it's brutality expensive. It's nearly always cheaper to drive.

Maintaing a car (bottom line) in Switzerland hits you with a minimum of 800 Franks a month, or almost 10'000 Franks a year. A first class Generalabonnement is virtually half the price of that. So, no. It's certainly not cheaper to drive.

Would you mind sharing your numbers? I recently tried to figure out how much my car costs me but it was less than half of your 10'000, so I'm wondering - either I missed something, or you have a rather expensive car.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#135

Post by _zoltan_ »

I had to be in Genf for an appointment at our temporary embassy (normally living in Zurich) and before the day I bought a "day GA" - a pass that allowed me to travel almost all of Switzerland for a fixed price. The train takes around 3 hours or so one way, so once there, I just hopped on a bus (covered by the GA), did what I went there to do, then did the trip back as well.

I had an electric socket under my seat so I could work on the train.

Cost? 69 CHF for the day. (Or 59? ish.). Cheap enough.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#136

Post by jeffbee »

Leherenn wrote: post #133
jeffbee wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has approximately the same GDP per capita as the San Francisco Bay Area, while having also about the same population, but more than double the land area. And yet, while I could take a direct train from Basel to Zürich in less than an hour, the similar trip from Berkeley (comparable in size to Basel) to San Jose (much larger than Zürich) would require a minimum of 1 transfer and take over 2 hours. Our trip isn't ev…

Not sure how you got that 17CHF, that's the price I get for a single trip with the half fare card (IC3). Full price would be 34CHF each way.

Sorry, you’re right, I double-counted the half card.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#137

Post by Narretz »

flohofwoe wrote: post #49

Theoretically, such an integrated timetable likely also exists in Germany. And I definitely don't want to complain, all connections from my hillbilly home village to the capital run at a one hour clock cycle or better, and I only need to switch trains twice on the whole journey. If it works, it works great, but if any train is late (and usually that's the ICE between Hamburg and Munich), then all bets are off :)

Something like an integrated timetable for Germany is actually in planning: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschlandtakt, but it looks like it focuses on high speed routes.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#138

Post by [deleted] »

archerx wrote: post #42
atemerev wrote: post #26

Not only this, the transportation network is intermodal-synchronized. Meaning that e.g. most buses will come to train stations at times that are convenient to take a train to somewhere, without much waiting. This is achieved by constant numerical simulations and optimizations of real transport patterns.

Has anybody told this to Morges? I would routinely get off the train in Bussigny just to watch the bus leave the bus stop as everyone is arriving. We would collectively let out a sigh of disgust. I've seen many people confront the following bus drivers about this problem, I know the drivers are not in control but some people just vent their frustrations on them anyway. I even saw a mass walk out of an MBC bus because…

[deleted]

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#139

Post by ggambetta »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #23
immmmmm wrote: post #2

Swiss here. Amazing system, using it everyday. Brutally expensive tickets tho.

Another Swiss here. Brutally expensive? Sure, when you look at full fare tickets. Since every Swiss, who uses public transport owns a half fare card those prices are (mostly) halfed, though. When it comes to commuter travel prices become outright reasonable. The best deal, if you use the train for a regular commute intercity is the Generalabonnement[0]. ca. $4000 (6500 for first class) for a year of unrestricted trav…

> a year of unrestricted travel throughout the (almost) whole country on any train

Any train, or boat, or tram, or bus,... :)

Source: expat in Zürich and loving it!

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#140

Post by fvdessen »

Vinnl wrote: post #34
michaelscott wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that Switzerland maintains this level of punctuality in addition to connecting the entire country, down to the village. That "down to the village" bit is the part that very few other public transport systems in the world have managed to get right, including those alternatives in your list. Of course, as you say this is about trusting the published statistics from the country itself. In the case of Switze…

I think GP's point was also that the Swiss look middle-of-the-league only when comparing their strict definition (>3m is counted as a delay) with the looser definition used by other countries (>5m is counted as a delay). Presumably, if trains with a 4- or 5-minute delay were not counted as delayed, more than 92% of Swiss trains would be on time.

Fun fact, if a train is cancelled in Belgium, it doesn't count in the delayed statistics :)
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