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Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

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Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#71
post #48

Having just spent 3 weeks on 4x hour long interviews and completing a day long coding problem along with a "code while I watch" to get to the point that "we're tabling this for a few months" I suspect many of us senior types are just tabling the job seeking process ourselves until we seem to be in actual demand.

Sometimes companies pay for the time it takes to complete a take-home project. I think it’s a good idea, especially now given all the hiring freezes and especially for a remote position where the applicant has no idea how many other applicants (around the country/world) they might be competing against.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#73
Agreed with the vibe of other comments here. It's hard not to come off snobby, and the market won't allow such snobbery forever, but for now the reality is that a senior engineer is interviewing YOU, not the other way around. Anything longer than a few emails and maybe a one hour conversation and you risk them moving on. Technical assignment is definitely pushing it, unless perhaps it's paid.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#74

We've been unsuccessful finding senior roles lately. The job is slightly underpaid, but the technologies, team, and everything else are amazing. It's difficult to communicate that in a job rec. I'd never leave for a much more higher paying role because the weight of being on a team of real experts working on real challenges far outweighs additional money. Just the way it goes out here. For the same reasons you wouldn…

Think about it. You expect to hire people making less right now, because most people won't take a pay cut if they aren't forced to.

But if you are paying $200K, then presumably you will not hire anyone who is now making $100K, $50K, or $5K. So you're restricted to a fairly narrow band.

Where is your "glass ceiling", the minimum someone has to be making for you to take them seriously?

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#76
Unless there's something I particularly like about a job, or I'm super unhappy in my current one, I'm going to pass on a take-home assignment.

I can whiteboard, I can tell you about past projects, sure. The demand on my time is fixed. I can communicate and discuss it with you. We have a conversation.

Take-home is too opaque and too much of a potential time demand.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#77
post #74

We've been unsuccessful finding senior roles lately. The job is slightly underpaid, but the technologies, team, and everything else are amazing. It's difficult to communicate that in a job rec. I'd never leave for a much more higher paying role because the weight of being on a team of real experts working on real challenges far outweighs additional money. Just the way it goes out here. For the same reasons you wouldn…

Think about it. You expect to hire people making less right now, because most people won't take a pay cut if they aren't forced to. But if you are paying $200K, then presumably you will not hire anyone who is now making $100K, $50K, or $5K. So you're restricted to a fairly narrow band. Where is your "glass ceiling", the minimum someone has to be making for you to take them seriously?

How much someone is making now is not part of the analysis on if they would be a good hire. I wouldn't even ask this within the process.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#78
The 4hr take-home test implies you're not after experienced "seniors", but rather those self-titled seniors with 3yrs under their belt.

Four hours of focus time is A LOT for a candidate with family responsibilities and heavily restricts your recruitment pool.

No parent is going to give up a precious weekend afternoon for an unpaid assignment.

That plus the lack of salary range will put 95% of "good" candidates off.

Instead have a time-boxed "chat" where the candidate is invited to talk about a topic they feel strongest in - networking, architecture, security, whatever.

As a company you want to leverage these strengths.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#79
post #36

I'm someone who is likely your target candidate and I just went through the hiring process so here are my thoughts without seeing an example ad post (which you should link to): - There are a ton of job openings right now in DevOps and similar roles. I spent about 2 days applying to as many as I could and that filled my entire next couple weeks with interviews/tasks. I went through interviews, received offers, and cho…

Remote is in the title of the post and mentioned multiple times throughout the post. I dare say we're not posting frequently enough, that's a good point. It's against company policy to put the range in the ad. Very very stupid, but probably nothing I can do about that. We have three languages mentioned in the ad. But any senior candidate can be introduced to new technologies so they're not in the "requirements" secti…

> It's against company policy to put the range in the ad. Very very stupid, but probably nothing I can do about that.

This is already against the rules in CO and soon WA and NYC. Your company may as well get use to posting ranges. Ranges are also thought of to lead to more equitable outcomes for those working at the company.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#80
Lots of great comments here;

My thoughts on this as other Seniors have pointed out (and I am a Senior myself)

1- I have not looked for a job since 2014, every job since came through my network. Then the interviews were basically friendly meet&greets but super informal, not a single coding test or take home assignment - note than I always started as Tech lead/Architect. I put in the hours and took pride in my work, have never let anyone down.

2- Unless I am unemployed and desperate, why would I give you between 6 and 7 hours of “free” unpaid labor for an interview that might not go anywhere? A big part of the interview process is “luck”. I have many terrible interviewing stories; interviewing is hard and for the most part a numbers and luck game. I hate wasting time and for that reason I carefully calculate my odds before applying and put more emphasis on gigs when I have a sponsor on the inside or where the upside and risk make it worth the attempt. Which disqualifies most non tech non brand name companies.

My suggestions for you;

1- Include salary and TC on your job post (it will set you apart from others) and will attract more attention.

2- Shorten/Simplify your hiring process and consider paying folks for their time, at least $100hr.

I have interviewed at places where it costs $40 to park for the day, you are there for 3-5 hrs for a final in person round, but if you don’t get an offer they don’t validate your parking ticket so not only you wasted your time but also spent a bunch of money on top of taking a day off from your current job.

Last but not least, think about the state of the market, Seniors are likely older, with families and mortgages. in this market, stability is important, changing jobs can be a gamble, their offer could get rescinded, etc Why take the risk? This will be true in the next 12/24 months, what is the incentive - unless the candidate is already unemployed.

Thanks for your time.

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