Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Contra Wirecutter on the IKEA air purifier

dynomight.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 723 posts

Re: Contra Wirecutter on the IKEA air purifier

#41

Post by jefftk »

Agreed: the Wirecutter's emphasis on HEPA is not right for a purifier that sits in a room. Once you get to reasonably high removal efficacy (even 90%, let alone 99.5% vs 99.97%) flow rate matters far more than filter spec.

I also wish the Wirecutter would publish more detailed logs. They just check the particle density after half an hour, which is generally super low. Instead they could show the particle density curves, or the minute-over-minute decreases (ex: https://www.jefftk.com/p/testing-air-purifiers)

Re: Contra Wirecutter on the IKEA air purifier

#42

Post by Gordonjcp »

kn0where wrote: post #9

Wirecutter really illustrates the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect. Some of their recommendations are fine, but whenever they review something more niche than phone charger cables, I go to the comments/Reddit/forums to find out why their pick is overpriced/underperforming compared to whatever the community prefers. Edit: also, I’m finding Reddit to be a less useful term to append to my google searches over time. Many Reddit…

Reddit can be a hilarious example of the Dunning-Kruger effect writ large. I've had people argue with me about the exact working of various synthesizers in the synth subreddits, even when I've backed up my points with links to the extensive service documentation, circuit diagrams, and my own code disassembly of the firmware ;-) Like, yes, that's nice that you have an opinion, but here's the fat book I wrote on the topic, so let's see if we can work out who's right.

Re: Contra Wirecutter on the IKEA air purifier

#43

Post by donohoe »

daenz wrote: post #19

Protip: you can turn a box fan into an incredibly effective air purifier[0] (particle measurements in thread). The one they show is pretty elaborate, using 4 filters and some construction, but you can also use a single filter and slap it on the back of the box fan and have similar results. The air purifier industry is more about aesthetics than it is function. 0. https://twitter.com/LazarusLong13/status/1425517352624…

> The air purifier industry is more about aesthetics than it is function

Well, sure, to a point.

I could make my own air purifier (like the one you link) but it looks awful. I would not want that in my home. So yeah, aesthetics do matter. Its not the only thing but it is a factor.

Re: Contra Wirecutter on the IKEA air purifier

#44

Post by hypersoar »

r12343a_19 wrote: post #17

I am legit wondering if air purifiers wouldn't be a good addition in preschools. A classroom isn't that big and one of these things would probably be enough. A school year would require 2-3 replacements, ie. not much. Anybody did something like this?

I don't know how it went, but I recall that improving ventilation and filtering in schools was pushed among the many Covid countermeasures.

Re: Contra Wirecutter on the IKEA air purifier

#45

Post by GavinMcG »

Nextgrid wrote: post #29
GavinMcG wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used the Wirecutter, so I'm not going to claim to be totally unbiased. But I'm just not seeing any nastiness there: the reason they gave for switching their recommendation (while retaining their original recommendation as an upgrade pick) seems entirely legitimate. And as much as the company wants to emphasize the use of the word "kickback" it's not really apt: Wirecutter's model has always been affiliate linkin…

But the problem is that it ultimately skews the incentives and contradicts their claim that the editors are totally isolated from the commercial part of their business. Their homepage currently suggests the following: > We independently review everything we recommend. When you buy through our links, we may earn a commission [emphasis mine] The "about" page claims: > There’s no incentive for us to pick inferior produc…

Sure, and I'm not saying there's no possible influence in any direction. At the same time, I suspect things are more separate than in 2014, and I don't see that claim on their pages from back then [0][1]. In fact they seemed to have independently reviewed the desks and only then asked about an affiliate program.

When they switched their recommendation to Fully, they apparently didn't have an affiliate relationship with them, either. NextDesk calls that "false" — but based on Wirecutter linking to Amazon to earn a commission. That's a bizarre conflation (although like you said it's not nothing) but it's what Wirecutter usually did regardless of the product, and they were up front about it at the time [1].

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20150603092537/https://thewirecu...

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20150518125823/http://thewirecut...

(Wirecutter used the word "kickback" here, too, so if anything it seems like they were trying to be as uncharitable as possible about their own model.)

Re: Contra Wirecutter on the IKEA air purifier

#46

Post by flanbiscuit »

Here's the original Wirecutter review: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/ikea-fornuftig-air-p...

"Our pick among small-space purifiers, the Levoit Core 300, is not much more expensive, is a true-HEPA machine, and has a CADR of 135, which means it’s effective in rooms up to 200 square feet."

Non-affiliate direct link to the one Wirecutter recommends:

https://levoit.com/products/core300-true-hepa-air-purifier

Just linking for information in case anyone else was curious.

Re: Contra Wirecutter on the IKEA air purifier

#47

Post by 99_00 »

jefftk wrote: post #41

Agreed: the Wirecutter's emphasis on HEPA is not right for a purifier that sits in a room. Once you get to reasonably high removal efficacy (even 90%, let alone 99.5% vs 99.97%) flow rate matters far more than filter spec. I also wish the Wirecutter would publish more detailed logs. They just check the particle density after half an hour, which is generally super low. Instead they could show the particle density curv…

>HEPA is not right for a purifier that sits in a room

Why not? I don't know anything about HEPA, or quality, air flow, etc.

Re: Contra Wirecutter on the IKEA air purifier

#48

Post by jefftk »

99_00 wrote: post #47
jefftk wrote: post #41

Agreed: the Wirecutter's emphasis on HEPA is not right for a purifier that sits in a room. Once you get to reasonably high removal efficacy (even 90%, let alone 99.5% vs 99.97%) flow rate matters far more than filter spec. I also wish the Wirecutter would publish more detailed logs. They just check the particle density after half an hour, which is generally super low. Instead they could show the particle density curv…

>HEPA is not right for a purifier that sits in a room Why not? I don't know anything about HEPA, or quality, air flow, etc.

The article explains it well:

Here’s a thought experiment: Take a 1000 cubic feet room and a purifier that processes 100 cubic feet of air per minute. (I follow Wirecutter in using vulgar imperial units.) Assume pessimistically that all particles are the worst-case size. If you run that purifier with an E12 filter, the fraction of particles that will remain after one minute is

     .1 × (1-.995) + .9 = 0.9005.
That’s because 10% of the air goes through the purifier and has 99.5% of particles removed, while 90% of the air doesn’t go through the purifier at all.

Meanwhile, if you run that purifier with an H13 filter instead then the fraction of particles that remain will be

     .1 × (1-.9995) + .9 = 0.90005.
If you noticed that 0.9005 and 0.90005 are almost identical then congratulations—you understand air filters better than the Wirecutter. Both 99.5% and 99.95% are close enough to 100% that performance is almost entirely determined by the volume of air they process.
Post reply on HN