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Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

theatlantic.com

171–180 of 349 posts

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#171

Near the beginning of the pandemic, I had a pretty bad toothache spring up out of basically nowhere. Bad enough that sleeping was difficult and eating was impossible. I went to see a dental surgeon (I forget the proper name for this) and he told me I needed a root canal, and backed it up with X-rays. It made sense, I had trouble with this tooth before and a previous dentist told me that a root canal and crown on this…

>cost out-of-pocket to address the cavities and they gave a number somewhat north of $200

Sorry for the all caps, but YOU HAVE TO NEGOTIATE PRICES! $200+ per filling is an ASKING PRICE. You counteroffer at $75/per filling. Maybe meet at $90/each.

IF YOU DO NOT NEGOTIATE PRICES YOU WILL BE CHEATED!

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#172
This was a helpful article! So far I’ve been lucky to escape what seems to be unfortunately common. One time I saw a dentist who smacked of profits over patients, and he had recommended a deep cleaning. I did it. It sucked. Now I know to get a second opinion!

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#173
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've told this story here before, but I grew up with very health-illiterate parents, who were very "old school" in the sense that if anyone in a white coat said something, it was gospel. Doctor, dentist, nurse, whatever (curiously they had and still have extremely negative opinions of medical paraprofessionals like PAs and NPs). Anyway, I was around 15 or 16 and had always had perfect dental checkups. One day I had a…

Interesting. A similar thing happened to me. After a lifetime of zero cavities, the dentist I'd seen a few times for cleanings announces that my luck has run out -- I've got several cavities. I declined any work, but I was concerned. Shortly after that I ended up moving to a different state and it was about year before I got back in to a new dentist. I was dreading it since I figured he'd tell me I've got cavities. N…

Worse happened to me. I had no cavities until the age of 36. Then I apparently got two. New dentist. I went for a second opinion and a second new dentist confirmed it, but who knows. I got the fillings. Within six weeks, one of the teeth broke in half around the filling and the guy was trying to give me an emergency root canal. I ended up having to have it pulled. The other one broke in half a few months later, another emergency surgery. That time, I went in and I'm pretty sure he worked on me drunk.

I haven't tried to sue the guy, but I think seriously about firebombing his office every time I drive by it.

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#174
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many argue that pushing flouride on the public is an outright scam and lie. Fluoride is a known toxic substance that damages the body and can compromise one's health. It was being dumped in the water by factories, and the industry helped pull off a con by paying for studies to show that their industrial waste was actually "good" for people. The public fell for it, and here we are today. All these people drinking in a…

There are multiple studies showing how flouride in toothpaste and drinking water prevents cavities, and is non toxic. Where is your evidence to the contrary?

Flouride is toxic, period. The argument that you are likely trying to make, to oppose my statement, is how much of it can a person ingest before having negative health effects and is it really good for your teeth. It might be better to read about its history of usage, and that many countries do not allow flouride in their drinking water, and have a cavity rate that is equal or less than that of the U.S.

https://www.primallifeorganics.com/blogs/primal-life-organic... (The Neurotoxin Lurking in Medicine Cabinets Around the Globe)

https://origins.osu.edu/article/toxic-treatment-fluorides-tr... (Fluoride's Transformation from Industrial Waste to Public Health Miracle)

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#175
I had an experience as a child where I _suspect_ my parents and I may have been taken advantage of by a dentist, and this article makes me think that it's not such an improbable thought. Every single time my parents took me for a 6-monthly cleaning, the dentist found new cavities. I'd have to get at least one new filling after each cleaning, sometimes two. We were told this was pretty common because I had braces and wasn't as diligent as I should have been with flossing. My needle phobia was especially bad at the time and every visit was like a nightmare.

When my last cleaning came around, they of course found another cavity. When I was taken in to get it filled, I panicked in fear of the needle and threw up in the chair. They told my mom we'd have to do the procedure on another day. The dental practice did not know that we were about to move to another country, and wouldn't have time to come back. My mom decided to just wait until after the move.

When I was taken to the dentist after moving about the tooth that was meant to be filled, they had no idea what we were talking about. They didn't see anything on the x-rays and said my teeth were fine.

Ever since then I wondered how many of those filling I even needed.

I'd avoided dentists ever since and didn't see one almost 15 years until a couple of years ago when I had a wisdom tooth that needed to be taken out. I was worried that when they'd take a look at my teeth they'd find all sorts of things wrong after all that time. But aside from the wisdom tooth and a tiny cavity that they said could heal on its own, they said my teeth were fine and I didn't need to do anything else except for being better about flossing (which is when I finally got really diligent about it).

(And for the wisdom tooth extraction I specifically found a clinic that specialized in dental phobia. They let me opt for a "Wand" device to do the anesthesia of the tooth instead of a traditional needle. It looks much less like a needle, and the release of the anesthetic is entirely controlled by the device itself and not by the hand of the dentist [though of course the dentist is still the one configuring it]. That somehow made me feel better about the whole thing, since I knew the device would release anesthetic at a stable and "ideal" rate. I trusted it more than a human.)

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience we've got these two options here: - socialized dentistry, where unless you're screaming in pain dentists take two peeks into your mouth and say it's fine and tell you to get out so they can take the next patient in the 200 person line outside (and shill their afternoon private practice to you if they happen to be the more shady type) - private dentistry, where they'll always find something random tha…

>- socialized dentistry, where unless you're screaming in pain dentists take two peeks into your mouth and say it's fine and tell you to get out so they can take the next patient in the 200 person line outside (and shill their afternoon private practice to you if they happen to be the more shady type) What would you define as socialised healthcare? Like would Belgium or the like qualify?

Tax funded healthcare services that you (generally) don't have to pay for when receiving care?

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#177
Personal anecdote about this:

My wisdom teeth grew in about 15 years ago and have sat comfortably behind my molars since.

I saw a new dentist for a routine cleaning “intro package” where she suggested that I have the wisdom teeth removed. I asked her why should I have a surgery for this since I never had problems with them. She said it was a good idea because they were “more likely to develop a cavity” because they are farther back and harder to brush.

So basically she was pushing me pay thousands of dollars to have a serious surgery to avoid the risk of developing a cavity because I might not know how to brush teeth that I have had for 15 years and never had a cavity on.

I wonder how many people just decide “guess I need this surgery”

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. A similar thing happened to me. After a lifetime of zero cavities, the dentist I'd seen a few times for cleanings announces that my luck has run out -- I've got several cavities. I declined any work, but I was concerned. Shortly after that I ended up moving to a different state and it was about year before I got back in to a new dentist. I was dreading it since I figured he'd tell me I've got cavities. N…

Worse happened to me. I had no cavities until the age of 36. Then I apparently got two. New dentist. I went for a second opinion and a second new dentist confirmed it, but who knows. I got the fillings. Within six weeks, one of the teeth broke in half around the filling and the guy was trying to give me an emergency root canal. I ended up having to have it pulled. The other one broke in half a few months later, anoth…

A few years ago, a friend of my cousin became a licensed dentist here in Sweden. My cousin had to remove a tooth and his friend gave him, I assume, a lower price because they're friends...

He removed a tooth alright, but the wrong one (on the wrong side). And apparently my cousin just assumed he worked on fixing something else, realising the mistake way too late.

I asked my cousin if he considered suing but he didn't want to do that because they're friends...

Weird situation.

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#179
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...but every 3 months. When pressed on why, eventually they'll admit it's how nice it feels to have clean teeth and how important your smile is - but NOT strictly necessary for health. Sometimes they can give a proper reason. Like in my example I've got some largish gum pockets around three of my teeth that are getting better but still not great (was a lot worse before they did some deep cleaning 9 months ago, I wa…

Did the hygienist measure your gaps and recommend interdental toothbrush sizes so you can do it yourself regularly? Tepe is a good brand but any really will do as long as you know what size to use. My hygienist measured and wrote sizes down for each gap between teeth.

They measure my gaps each time, yeah. I had three 6mms that are now two 5mms and a 4mm, and a lot of 4mms and 5mms that are now 3mms. They didn't mention the interdental brushes, but that might be because I have a Waterpik, which they did recommend I use 2-3 times a day, instead of just once, as well as brushing.

My gums also generally feel a lot better now, except for some periodic issues with the two 5mm gap teeth. Like it's pretty obvious to me that they're better. It used to be painful just to lightly brush some of those places that aren't now, and bleeding is a lot less common, and swelling is way down.

The Tepe brushes look interesting though, I might have to give those a try.

Re: Dentistry is less scientific and more gratuitous than people think (2019)

#180

Near the beginning of the pandemic, I had a pretty bad toothache spring up out of basically nowhere. Bad enough that sleeping was difficult and eating was impossible. I went to see a dental surgeon (I forget the proper name for this) and he told me I needed a root canal, and backed it up with X-rays. It made sense, I had trouble with this tooth before and a previous dentist told me that a root canal and crown on this…

>cost out-of-pocket to address the cavities and they gave a number somewhat north of $200 Sorry for the all caps, but YOU HAVE TO NEGOTIATE PRICES! $200+ per filling is an ASKING PRICE. You counteroffer at $75/per filling. Maybe meet at $90/each. IF YOU DO NOT NEGOTIATE PRICES YOU WILL BE CHEATED!

Well, in this case he would have been cheated no matter the price.
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