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Webcams aren't good enough

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Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#561

Post by whoopsie »

iamacyborg wrote: post #514
Guest19023892 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. It's a little strange to complain about a lack of progress in webcams the past decade, and then ship similar quality hardware to decade old webcams. Why does everyone focus on a small form factor for webcams? Look at the size of microphones being sold today. The Blue Yeti is one of the most popular microphones and it's almost 30cm (12") in height. You might say, if you don't mind a large form factor, then go…

> I watched one of the Lumina videos, and they were complaining the $2,000 Sony camera took forever to setup and configure for their demo Is that even a real problem? I started using my fuji mirrorless camera as a webcam during the pandemic and it was almost trivial to setup. All I needed to do was download some official software, plug the camera in and switch it on for it to start working as a webcam.

Except it cannot handle exposure changes at all, whether from a cloud or just moving around in the frame. So you AE lock and babysit. It’s just easier to link up your phone.

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#562

Post by Miraste »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #500
sephamorr wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, the Apple Studio Display has a A13 processor inside it for camera and other processing. Misses your $500 price point by a long way though!

The Studio Display does have a 27" 5K P3-color monitor attached to it, which drives up the price a bit... Seriously, though, in the context of webcams, the Studio Display is kind of a counterpoint to "just rip a camera module out of a few-year-old smartphone and it'll be terrific". That's pretty much what Apple did here, and it's rather notoriously, ah, not great. (I have one, and I think it's better than some people…

Sadly, Apple's laptop webcams are still way better than the ones in competitors. I used an HP Spectre from 2020 or so and it had literally the worst digital camera I have ever seen, including the 90s. It's pinhole sized, and it made a brightly lit room look like a closet at midnight while being grainier than off-brand film. They might as well not have bothered.

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#563

Post by eimrine »

aquajet wrote: post #206
paulgerhardt wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely believe a loss in fidelity moves us from acceptable telepresence to uncanny valley. Landlines had exceptional fidelity and let one pick up the nuance of a person's emotional state. Today's cellular connections not so much. Thankfully things like Apple Facetime (audio only) recapture some of that. Likewise with a high quality webcam I think it's important to treat your coworkers with respect by giving them t…

I grew up just as landlines were giving way to cell phones. How did high fidelity let us pick up on emotional state?

I grew up in similar times. What am I noticing is that only one model of cellphone (no adv) can give me a decent sound of my companion. But I did not have that mis-experience using very old phones.

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#564

Post by skewbone »

There is an industry that packages high quality Sony image sensors in packages with C or Cs mount lense compatibility and native UVC support on Linux/MacOS/Windows. Primary uses seem to be industrial cameras for manufacturing quality inspections, circuit magnification for repairs, installation onto telescopes, etc.

Prices range from $40 to multiple hundreds for extremely high quality sensors.

This sketchy site has comparisons of the sensors by area and signal to noise ratio.

https://navinside.ru/tablitsa-sravneniya-sony-snr1s/

I bought a 1080P one with very high SNR and 2-14mm lens using the Sony IMX291 sensor for $79.

Arducam 1080P USB Webcam,... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0991XRFXB?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_shar...

For audio, I bought a Samson Q2U USB/XLR mic for $60. USB has been perfect, and the included stand works fine to the side of my keyboard.

Samson Technologies Q2U USB/XLR... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001R747SG?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_shar...

Altogether, this is a cost effective way to increase audio and video quality for meetings / streaming.

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#565

Post by aksss »

underlines wrote: post #529
iamacyborg wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I watched one of the Lumina videos, and they were complaining the $2,000 Sony camera took forever to setup and configure for their demo Is that even a real problem? I started using my fuji mirrorless camera as a webcam during the pandemic and it was almost trivial to setup. All I needed to do was download some official software, plug the camera in and switch it on for it to start working as a webcam.

Same here: Used my Sony A7III with USB and their software as an excellent webcam and since I bought the new Sony A7IV, all my client always ask in video calls, what Webcam that is. At my new employer I had several coworkers asking me how the heck I did the insane background blur. (They didn't know it was a mirrorless) If you have an old DSLR or a modern camera, you can use a 20USD Chinese HDMI Capture stick and get t…

Old DSLR - I think there’s an issue with latency that you’ll find on many older DSLRs - converting out to HDMI in real-time - that makes them impractical for use as webcams. Make sure you record yourself in a test conference first and verify.

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#566

Post by aksss »

oblio wrote: post #549
atombender wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know? This sounds like your opinion, not anything rooted in fact.

Because his opinion is supported by the status quo (crappy cameras everywhere). My anecdata says the same. In most video confs your video is put up on maybe 1/16th of the screen, to the corner, and people generally share something like a presentation. I guess if you're in sales, it matters more since your face will be fullscreen. But even then... most people don't work in shiny offices anymore, are you sure you want…

Camera aside - people will do wonders for their video presence by putting some effort into their background and lighting. If you’re not going to use a blur or picture background, clean up the area, consider how it functions as a backdrop (including wash lighting, etc), and what impression it’s making. Lighting is king - be deliberate about it.

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#567

Post by aksss »

bronco21016 wrote: post #347
theelous3 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that would be like if Apple stopped releasing new phones after the iPhone 4S (launched 2012), and it remained the bestselling phone through now. If I can be a bit cheeky - this sounds like exactly the kind of frankly ridiculous comparison a founder would make about their product alright. The reality is - nobody really cares that much . Whatever image you record is going to be gigga-smashed by whatever application y…

Completely agree with you on audio. I’m not entirely certain it’s solvable without cultural norms changing. Even the absolute best noise reduction systems cannot work in every environment and echo cancellation always has enough delay to cause people to “step” on each other. It’s just physics and propagation of sound waves. At a minimum, normalizing the use of in/on ear audio needs to become the norm. Echo cancellatio…

> cultural norms changing

Like what? Greater acceptance of sirens, roosters, kids, dogs, and motorbikes in background while people talking?

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#568

Post by [deleted] »

yardstick wrote: post #515
xxs13 wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest Gaming Laptops no longer have webcams ... It's a growing trend ... if you're a gamer who spent 2000$ on a laptop and also want to do some remote work/interviews you need an external webcam...

Growing trend in a niche market I would suggest. I know people who have 2 laptops - one for gaming, one for work (with webcam etc). Because the gaming laptop is too bulky to carry around, it's effectively a desktop.

[deleted]

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#569

Post by aksss »

eropple wrote: post #332
ncmncm wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sucks most is that Logitech, which used to be a proud name (back when "Feels good / Feels better") has gone totally to shit. Even their mice are designed to fail in a year. (Spill on the desk, the mouse that only got damp on the bottom is dead, dead, dead. That can't be accidental.) A full article on what went wrong at Logitech corporate could be enlightening, if not helpful.

Maybe I'm lucky, but I've got half a dozen Logitech wireless mice/keyboard-and-trackpad media keyboards in regular use, plus the MX Ergo trackball, plus a couple of G Pro keyboards, and I haven't been able to kill any of them even through pretty rough use on the mice particularly (they tend to get bounced around in the living room when the dog jumps on the couch, etc.). "Can't be accidental" reads as conspiracy-huffi…

> MX Ergo…remarkably excellent.

Great mouse but always am missing the scroll wheels from the MX Master. As soon as they release a new MX Ergo with upgraded wheels, I’ll be upgrading. Just smoosh the two together and it will be excellent.

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