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The integrated timetable of Switzerland

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Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#111

Post by eterevsky »

jokteur wrote: post #105
eterevsky wrote: post #104

It would be interesting to see what will happen if the times of the trains are moved to random other times within the hour. In might well be that short transfer times is just statistical consequence of having many scheduled trains. There are probably some trains that are intentionally synchronized, but I don't think there's too many of them, because synchronizing all trains is simply impossible. For instance if you h…

Author here: it would be a good point of comparison, to generate a random network and look at the same statistics. I will do this maybe in a future article.

I'll be sure to read it. :)

Just to clarify, not another network, just shift all trains by a random number of minutes.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#112

Post by mrep »

runeks wrote: post #62
config_yml wrote: post #20

Man it costs a lot of money to maintain this, but Switzerland will continue to invest heavily into rail service, backed by the public: https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/rail... One project I find pretty cool is the 4 track expansion via tunnel under and through an existing village: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi2rmEl8ULA

> Man it costs a lot of money to maintain this, but Switzerland will continue to invest heavily into rail service, backed by the public: https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/rail ... Isn’t it paid for through ticket fees? Or is it subsidized by the state?

You're looking for the Farebox recovery ratio [0].

Japan and honk kong: Mostly yes.

Europe: Mostly no but at least a good portion of it is for most.

US: Not even close.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#113

Post by herbst »

a4a4a4a4 wrote: post #33
herbst wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

City tickets in Switzerland also are around 300-500/year. (sure our cities are nowhere near Berlin in size) the 340/m option does allow you to use nearly any transport (boats, trains, buses, some cable cars) in the whole country including price reductions (up to 50%) for most non-included transport methods (like private mountain trains or tourist hot spot cable cars).

> City tickets in Switzerland also are around 300-500/year Zurich zone 110 (city center) is 782chf/year ($816) for the non-transferable one. Bern is 790chf/year. I'm not sure where you're getting "300-500/year". https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/de/abos-und-tickets/abos/netzpass.htm... https://www.mylibero.ch/de/libero-abo/jahresabo

That's absolutely new to me. Last time I got a Libero it was like 380 or so for 2 zones.

Thanks for the correction

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#114

Post by wongarsu »

bigDinosaur wrote: post #35
belter wrote: post #12

No doubt Swiss train network is excellent. If we are to trust to published statistics form other countries for 2018, and using for the Swiss system, the 2021 data mentioned in the article: "about 92% of passenger trains were on-time" this would make it for punctuality, somewhat middle of the league. Behind Poland, Greece and Bulgaria for example. This is assuming being on time is: "a delay of five minutes or less". F…

Hopefully European countries aren't prone to manipulating the statistics. An example that used to happen in my (Australian) city: if a train was running late, they'd skip stations: magically, it now arrived at its destination on time!

German rail has what we call the Profalla-Wende (a "turn" named after the former minister of transport). If a train is sufficiently delayed, and at the final destination would turn around to do the same trip in the other direction, it might skip the last few stops and just turn around earlier. Now the train is on time, skipped stops aren't counted in the statistic, the ripple effects from tracks and stations blocked by the delayed train are gone, and everyone who wanted to go to the final destination is skrewed.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#115

Post by lillecarl »

izacus wrote: post #66
jemen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they way Switzerland is structured both in terms of administration and geography I don't think that a village in Switzerland is equivalent to a village in most other countries. Presumably the canton system results in more smaller cities and large villages, and the terrain means they are in a limited number of places. The largest cities are all within 100 km of each other. While a single trip in a large countr…

200km/h is "lower speeds"? That's the nominal speed of IC trains between Swiss population centers.

And Switzerland is quite a tiny country, so more than 200kph isn't worth it. Regular rail connected by wire will require much more maintenance going faster.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#116

Post by jeroenhd »

bigDinosaur wrote: post #35
belter wrote: post #12

No doubt Swiss train network is excellent. If we are to trust to published statistics form other countries for 2018, and using for the Swiss system, the 2021 data mentioned in the article: "about 92% of passenger trains were on-time" this would make it for punctuality, somewhat middle of the league. Behind Poland, Greece and Bulgaria for example. This is assuming being on time is: "a delay of five minutes or less". F…

Hopefully European countries aren't prone to manipulating the statistics. An example that used to happen in my (Australian) city: if a train was running late, they'd skip stations: magically, it now arrived at its destination on time!

I don't know about the statistics reported to the European level but most Dutch railways don't take into account "cancelled" trains when determining punctuality. A train is "cancelled" when it's 30 minutes late and therefore doesn't alter the punctuality scores.

It does stop at all stops unless it's really late and passengers might as well get out at a stopover station and transfer trains, however if it's sufficiently delayed it may be put on side tracks to let other trains pass to prevent a ripple effect, delaying the train even more to keep the rest of the system working well.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#117

Post by bwanab »

michaelscott wrote: post #22
belter wrote: post #12

No doubt Swiss train network is excellent. If we are to trust to published statistics form other countries for 2018, and using for the Swiss system, the 2021 data mentioned in the article: "about 92% of passenger trains were on-time" this would make it for punctuality, somewhat middle of the league. Behind Poland, Greece and Bulgaria for example. This is assuming being on time is: "a delay of five minutes or less". F…

The point is that Switzerland maintains this level of punctuality in addition to connecting the entire country, down to the village. That "down to the village" bit is the part that very few other public transport systems in the world have managed to get right, including those alternatives in your list. Of course, as you say this is about trusting the published statistics from the country itself. In the case of Switze…

As an American living in a suburban Swiss village taking the bus into Geneva, I don’t think the bus was more than 1 minute late once every hundred days. And I was pretty far along on the line. It was staggeringly punctual.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#118

Post by BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 »

An interesting contrast to Alberta where you pretty much have to have a car to get to the mountains for hiking, climbing, skiing, biking, scenic dining...

Public transit in the mountain national parks is limited to daily hostel shuttles and a bus between Banff and Jasper. However I have been able to finagle a ride on a tour bus to Takkakaw Falls and come back a week later.

As for provincial parks and trailheads, forget it.

Back in the '80s, a two lane highway was sufficient. The lack of transit has necessitated an extremely expensive twinning of the Trans Canada highway from Alberta to British Columbia.

The Swiss fares and timetables enable people to get their recreation without having a car and paying gas, registration, maintenance, parking...

That's one good way to limit global warming - brought to you in large part by the car centered North American suburb.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#119

Post by iso1631 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #93
iso1631 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

£25 each way is a walk up fare, you just need to take the slightly slower train (which is still faster than the car and about the same speed it was in the 90s), arriving in London about 1030. Peak time commuting tickets are likewise a bargain. Brighton-London for £5,300 5 times a day 50 weeks a year at 65 miles each way is 32,500 miles, or 16p per mile. For a car doing 45mpg that will cost you £6,300 in fuel alone, l…

The car will carry 4 people and luggage. So if you consider car pooling, or you need to be in office 3 times a week, it's not a good deal. Or your car is electric. Even for a couple, a car makes economic sence. Also consider comfort - have you see how crowded those trains get, sometimes you might have to stand for hours on a long distance train. If you are able bodied man thats one thing, but if you are pregnant or i…

Sure, you could spend 3-4 hours driving from Brighton to central London and paying £65 to do it.

It doesn't come close with season tickets, hence the reason so many people chose to commute by train rather than driving. Also why people take the train rather than commuter bus services which tend to be cheaper

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#120

Post by alx__ »

What's wild is that the width of Switzerland is nearly the distance between SF and LA. We're still figuring out how to build one train line. On mostly flat ground. Maybe when I'm retired we'll have a better transit system
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