The integrated timetable of Switzerland • Hacker News Board

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#101

Post by lasftew » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 3:05 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #81

jokteur wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry that you have this kind of experience. Vevey - Morges is really a weak point of the network, and I do agree that the Romandie gets treated like a second class citizen. I also use the train daily to get to Romandie (to Lausanne), and I almost never have problems: maybe the train is late every two weeks by 5 minutes.

> and I do agree that the Romandie gets treated like a second class citizen. Does that mean Ticino is a third-class citizen?

I don't think this is true. There were massive investments into the Ticino regional rail network over the last 10-20 years, partially driven by the NEAT extension, which shortened travel times between regional centers (Lugano - Locarno - Bellinzona) dramatically.

What doesn't seem to work well are interconnections with neighboring Italy, but that is likely not due to underinvestment on the Swiss side. Road traffic is therefore still a huge issue in Ticino, as many Italian workers cross the border twice per day by car due to the lack of adequate public transport options.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#102

Post by prmoustache » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 3:10 PM UTC

Stevvo wrote: post #48

CaptainZapp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another Swiss here. Brutally expensive? Sure, when you look at full fare tickets. Since every Swiss, who uses public transport owns a half fare card those prices are (mostly) halfed, though. When it comes to commuter travel prices become outright reasonable. The best deal, if you use the train for a regular commute intercity is the Generalabonnement[0]. ca. $4000 (6500 for first class) for a year of unrestricted trav…

However you look at, it's brutality expensive. It's nearly always cheaper to drive.

Only if you own the car in the first place and wouldn't part with it by any mean.

Owning a car is brutally expensive.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#103

Post by toss1 » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 3:17 PM UTC

The people running the Boston Transit system REALLY need to read this

Very impressed with the Swiss system. I could consistently take my seat, and watch a station clock as the departure time approached, and the train would inevitably start to roll on the very second. It seemed like the conductors really took pride in the exactness.

It was also worrisome one evening when I was traveling alone with all my ski racing gear (multiple bags and ski bags). The schedule showed elapsed time between stop-departure as one minute at the small town station where I had to disembark. The doors seemed to open randomly at one end of the car or the other, but never both, and no conductor to be found to ask. I got all ready, sprinted with the gear to the open door, got everything off, and the train indeed left in 60 seconds. Fortunately, I was so nervous that I managed to get everything off with about 30sec to spare...

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#104

Post by eterevsky » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 3:24 PM UTC

It would be interesting to see what will happen if the times of the trains are moved to random other times within the hour. In might well be that short transfer times is just statistical consequence of having many scheduled trains.

There are probably some trains that are intentionally synchronized, but I don't think there's too many of them, because synchronizing all trains is simply impossible. For instance if you have a timetable where it's convenient to transfer from train A to train B, then in the same timetable it will be inconvenient to transfer from B to A since you will have to wait almost 30 minutes (or an hour for hourly trains).

Also a nitpick: "Gemeinde (administrative limit of a city)". Gemeinde means "municipality". All small villages belong to some municipalities.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#105

Post by jokteur » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 3:31 PM UTC

eterevsky wrote: post #104

It would be interesting to see what will happen if the times of the trains are moved to random other times within the hour. In might well be that short transfer times is just statistical consequence of having many scheduled trains. There are probably some trains that are intentionally synchronized, but I don't think there's too many of them, because synchronizing all trains is simply impossible. For instance if you h…

Author here: it would be a good point of comparison, to generate a random network and look at the same statistics. I will do this maybe in a future article.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#106

Post by jeffbee » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 3:39 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #52

Switzerland is a very rich country per capita. It can afford to spend a lot on public transit to get a very good service. That's important to remember when wondering if these ideas could be applied to your country.

It has approximately the same GDP per capita as the San Francisco Bay Area, while having also about the same population, but more than double the land area. And yet, while I could take a direct train from Basel to Zürich in less than an hour, the similar trip from Berkeley (comparable in size to Basel) to San Jose (much larger than Zürich) would require a minimum of 1 transfer and take over 2 hours. Our trip isn't even cheaper. It would be 17 CHF at full price on SBB, round trip, but it would be $11.40 each way on BART+VTA

The fact is we're rich as anybody here and what we spent our money on is 12-lane freeways.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#107

Post by myrion » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 3:45 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #85

cybrox wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half fare card is CHF 185 for the first year or CHF 165 for every subsequent year (CHF 120 / CHF 100 if you're 16-26). For anyone planning to spend any amount of time in Switzerland and using PT, it is well worth considering. It does exactly what it says, you only pay half. So assuming you travel from Zurich to Bern (CHF 51 -> CHF 26, you safe CHF 25), it's worth it after only 8 trips.

Everyone seems to have a half price card except tourists. I think this is designed to get subsidize tourists less, because otherwise Swiss rail and metro prices appear twice as much as other European countries.

Tourists have access to tourist-only specials though, which make up for that, I think: https://www.sbb.ch/en/leisure-holidays/inspiration/internati...

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#108

Post by denni9th » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

eterevsky wrote: post #104

It would be interesting to see what will happen if the times of the trains are moved to random other times within the hour. In might well be that short transfer times is just statistical consequence of having many scheduled trains. There are probably some trains that are intentionally synchronized, but I don't think there's too many of them, because synchronizing all trains is simply impossible. For instance if you h…

It is possible for train A and train B to arrive at the same time, and depart at the same time, allowing convenient transfers in both directions. From my brief experience on Swiss railways, I found this arrangement to be quite common.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#109

Post by jkarni » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

I'm currently reading this in the Bern train station, since my train to Basel was cancelled altogether.

(Though yes, there's another one soon.)

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#110

Post by eterevsky » Mon, Jun 20, 2022, 3:56 PM UTC

denni9th wrote: post #108

eterevsky wrote: post #104

It would be interesting to see what will happen if the times of the trains are moved to random other times within the hour. In might well be that short transfer times is just statistical consequence of having many scheduled trains. There are probably some trains that are intentionally synchronized, but I don't think there's too many of them, because synchronizing all trains is simply impossible. For instance if you h…

It is possible for train A and train B to arrive at the same time, and depart at the same time, allowing convenient transfers in both directions. From my brief experience on Swiss railways, I found this arrangement to be quite common.

A train usually stops at the station for only around a minute, so there is no time to change to another platform unless another train arrives later.

There are some trains that stop at the big train station for a longer period of time, so it might theoretically be possible. I live in Switzerland and I don't remember ever changing trains like that (though maybe I just didn't notice).