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The integrated timetable of Switzerland

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Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#81

Post by masklinn »

jokteur wrote: post #43
archerx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same train almost everyday for over a year? I'm sorry but the CFF loves smelling their own farts talking about how great they are but let's be honest here the Romandie part gets treated like a second class citizen. The trains are dirty, I remember seeing the same goop and grime on an inside train wall for over a month (I'm very consistent with my train timing so I ended up mostly taking the same train). The train…

I am sorry that you have this kind of experience. Vevey - Morges is really a weak point of the network, and I do agree that the Romandie gets treated like a second class citizen. I also use the train daily to get to Romandie (to Lausanne), and I almost never have problems: maybe the train is late every two weeks by 5 minutes.

> and I do agree that the Romandie gets treated like a second class citizen.

Does that mean Ticino is a third-class citizen?

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#82

Post by seanmcdirmid »

michaelscott wrote: post #73
jemen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they way Switzerland is structured both in terms of administration and geography I don't think that a village in Switzerland is equivalent to a village in most other countries. Presumably the canton system results in more smaller cities and large villages, and the terrain means they are in a limited number of places. The largest cities are all within 100 km of each other. While a single trip in a large countr…

I think there are pros and cons to both structures. Villages in Switzerland are well separated by geography that is physically difficult to overcome (i.e. mountains), even if the distances are not big. It's way easier to lay down a flat, long rail between 2 cities in, say, the US or Mexico than it is to do the same in Switzerland. The structure would probably need to change for larger countries though, it's true. But…

The really smaller villages in the mountains are only connected by postal bus. The villages in the valley and what I could call small towns are connected by train, but it is far from ubiquitous.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#83

Post by Youden »

chinathrow wrote: post #75
Youden wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on a lot of factors. If you live in or around Zürich for example, the median price just to rent a parking space is CHF 200/month, or CHF 2400/yr. For comparison, an adult GA is CHF 3860/yr, so paying for a parking space in Zürich alone puts you 2/3rd of the way to the cost of public transportation, even disregarding costs like insurance, the car itself, registration, vignette, fuel, vehicle maintenance,…

Where did you get the price figure for a parking space in Zürich? It's CHF 300 per year in a blue zone where you have to find a spot whenever you feel like parking your car.

That number was from Immoscout24 listings of parking spaces for rent [0].

If you have vacant spaces in blue zones near you, that's a viable option. There are plenty of places where that's not the case though.

[0]: https://www.immoscout24.ch/de/parkplatz/mieten/ort-zuerich

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#84

Post by smoe »

belter wrote: post #12

No doubt Swiss train network is excellent. If we are to trust to published statistics form other countries for 2018, and using for the Swiss system, the 2021 data mentioned in the article: "about 92% of passenger trains were on-time" this would make it for punctuality, somewhat middle of the league. Behind Poland, Greece and Bulgaria for example. This is assuming being on time is: "a delay of five minutes or less". F…

Currently on the phone so can’t add many sources, but I think you can’t really compare the punctually of trains across european countries like this. E.g if I remember correctly in Germany, a train is late after 5 minutes 59 seconds, whereas Switzerlands threshold is 2:59. Also Switzerland measures delays at arrival at destination, not departure from origin. I don’t really know about other countries thought.

https://company.sbb.ch/de/ueber-die-sbb/verantwortung/die-sb...

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#85

Post by seanmcdirmid »

cybrox wrote: post #19
herbst wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss here, it always depends. Some rides are cheaper by car but take less time by train and you have WiFi and fresh coffee in trains so it's only partially travel time partially leisure or work time. Some routes are more expensive, but again way more comfortable than a car. The there are dozens of hacks to save. Early booking, last minute bookings, half fair (which is only $200 or so a year and makes you pay half fo…

Half fare card is CHF 185 for the first year or CHF 165 for every subsequent year (CHF 120 / CHF 100 if you're 16-26). For anyone planning to spend any amount of time in Switzerland and using PT, it is well worth considering. It does exactly what it says, you only pay half. So assuming you travel from Zurich to Bern (CHF 51 -> CHF 26, you safe CHF 25), it's worth it after only 8 trips.

Everyone seems to have a half price card except tourists. I think this is designed to get subsidize tourists less, because otherwise Swiss rail and metro prices appear twice as much as other European countries.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#86

Post by mellavora »

runeks wrote: post #62
config_yml wrote: post #20

Man it costs a lot of money to maintain this, but Switzerland will continue to invest heavily into rail service, backed by the public: https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/rail... One project I find pretty cool is the 4 track expansion via tunnel under and through an existing village: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi2rmEl8ULA

> Man it costs a lot of money to maintain this, but Switzerland will continue to invest heavily into rail service, backed by the public: https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/rail ... Isn’t it paid for through ticket fees? Or is it subsidized by the state?

> Or is it subsidized by the state?

"subsidized", yes, but like any other investment the idea is that it will create positive economic value across the whole country and across a long time horizon, in a way that the tickets cannot recapture (for example, every person on the train is one less person on the road -- less cars is a benefit for the other drivers and reduces road wear/maintenance cost and reduces accidents/health-care costs).

Thus perfect for a government project. Create vast value and the recapture mechanism is taxes.

Luxembourg went to totally free public transportation. Bus, train, light rail. Total game-changer. More countries should do this.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#87

Post by seanmcdirmid »

DeathArrow wrote: post #61
londons_explore wrote: post #52

Switzerland is a very rich country per capita. It can afford to spend a lot on public transit to get a very good service. That's important to remember when wondering if these ideas could be applied to your country.

Switzerland has also a lot a lot of mountainous landscape and use a lot of tunnels and viaducts. Wages for construction workers are larger, construction work is more expensive. In some other countries it might be cheaper to build a transit systems using the same ideas.

China has a lot of viaducts and tunnels for its HSR and expressway systems. In fact, it is more of a worse case than Switzerland since it’s major cities aren’t really connected by valleys.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#88

Post by gjulianm »

Stevvo wrote: post #48
CaptainZapp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another Swiss here. Brutally expensive? Sure, when you look at full fare tickets. Since every Swiss, who uses public transport owns a half fare card those prices are (mostly) halfed, though. When it comes to commuter travel prices become outright reasonable. The best deal, if you use the train for a regular commute intercity is the Generalabonnement[0]. ca. $4000 (6500 for first class) for a year of unrestricted trav…

However you look at, it's brutality expensive. It's nearly always cheaper to drive.

I wouldn't be so sure. Maybe if you look just at the price of the car itself, but between parking, gas, insurance, maintenance, the actual cost can get fairly high.

I don't know about prices now, but when I lived there, if you actually needed to travel so much that the GA was worth it over the half-fare card, it definitely was worth it over the car, just on gas prices alone.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#89

Post by throw0101a »

runeks wrote: post #62
config_yml wrote: post #20

Man it costs a lot of money to maintain this, but Switzerland will continue to invest heavily into rail service, backed by the public: https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/rail... One project I find pretty cool is the 4 track expansion via tunnel under and through an existing village: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi2rmEl8ULA

> Man it costs a lot of money to maintain this, but Switzerland will continue to invest heavily into rail service, backed by the public: https://www.bav.admin.ch/bav/en/home/modes-of-transport/rail ... Isn’t it paid for through ticket fees? Or is it subsidized by the state?

> Isn’t it paid for through ticket fees? Or is it subsidized by the state?

You can subsidize public transit/rail or you can subsidize highways. Which has a better 'ROI' when high oil prices come along? :)

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#90

Post by [deleted] »

ls15 wrote: post #71
tauchunfall wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German here, who traveled a lot through Switzerland. I find it even more amazing that there are more people who have a Generalabonnement than a Bahncard 100 (the German equivalent which is a bit cheaper). [1] Commuting between Fribourg and Zurich was always great, even when there were only circa five minutes to change trains in Bern. It's so efficient, I always catched my train in Bern. [1] >2019: 500'000 Exemplare d…

> I find it even more amazing that there are more people who have a Generalabonnement than a Bahncard 100 (the German equivalent which is a bit cheaper). GA costs about 50% of a typical monthly Swiss salary. BC100 costs about 100% of a typical monthly German salary.

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