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The integrated timetable of Switzerland

jokteur.com

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Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#41

Post by izacus »

michaelscott wrote: post #22
belter wrote: post #12

No doubt Swiss train network is excellent. If we are to trust to published statistics form other countries for 2018, and using for the Swiss system, the 2021 data mentioned in the article: "about 92% of passenger trains were on-time" this would make it for punctuality, somewhat middle of the league. Behind Poland, Greece and Bulgaria for example. This is assuming being on time is: "a delay of five minutes or less". F…

The point is that Switzerland maintains this level of punctuality in addition to connecting the entire country, down to the village. That "down to the village" bit is the part that very few other public transport systems in the world have managed to get right, including those alternatives in your list. Of course, as you say this is about trusting the published statistics from the country itself. In the case of Switze…

It's thus probably also worth counting the number of trips - I don't have numbers, but I have a feeling that SBB runs much more passenger trains daily than Polish or other systems do.

The trains run more often and go to more places than any other place I've ever been to.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#42

Post by archerx »

atemerev wrote: post #26

Not only this, the transportation network is intermodal-synchronized. Meaning that e.g. most buses will come to train stations at times that are convenient to take a train to somewhere, without much waiting. This is achieved by constant numerical simulations and optimizations of real transport patterns.

Has anybody told this to Morges? I would routinely get off the train in Bussigny just to watch the bus leave the bus stop as everyone is arriving. We would collectively let out a sigh of disgust. I've seen many people confront the following bus drivers about this problem, I know the drivers are not in control but some people just vent their frustrations on them anyway.

I even saw a mass walk out of an MBC bus because they were so disgusted with the service. At least the TL (Transport Lausanne) isn't garbage like MBC.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#43

Post by jokteur »

archerx wrote: post #37
jokteur wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what you get with averages: you may have lots of problems on one particular line, but compared to the sheer numbers of daily trains in Switzerland that are on time, it doesn't change the average so much.

The same train almost everyday for over a year? I'm sorry but the CFF loves smelling their own farts talking about how great they are but let's be honest here the Romandie part gets treated like a second class citizen. The trains are dirty, I remember seeing the same goop and grime on an inside train wall for over a month (I'm very consistent with my train timing so I ended up mostly taking the same train). The train…

I am sorry that you have this kind of experience. Vevey - Morges is really a weak point of the network, and I do agree that the Romandie gets treated like a second class citizen.

I also use the train daily to get to Romandie (to Lausanne), and I almost never have problems: maybe the train is late every two weeks by 5 minutes.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#44

Post by gmac »

midasuni wrote: post #9
tragomaskhalos wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a bad trade-off to be fair. In the UK tickets (at least inter-city) are also brutally expensive but the system is, to put it kindly, often flakey.

I had a delay repay for the first time in years a few weeks ago - someone threw themselves under a train at Milton Keynes just before my train was due to leave Euston. I don’t consider £25 each way Manchester-London to be brutally expensive to be honest - http://brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=MAN&dest=EUS&rte=371&tkt...

> I don’t consider £25 each way Manchester-London to be brutally expensive to be honest

I think you're citing pretty much a best case there. I just put in the same journey on a morning next week and got £150 each way, which I suspect is still not the worst case.

Before the pandemic, my wife used to pay about £5K/year for a London - Brighton season ticket (a distance of about 50 miles).

Possibly the most infuriating thing is that it's highly unpredictable what's cheap and what's expensive, and long journeys can often be several times the cost of flying. From a social-welfare/cost-of-carbon and oil-crisis perspective, this is nuts, especially when you compare what Germany is doing[1].

[1] https://e360.yale.edu/digest/germany-slashes-summer-train-fa...

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#46

Post by jokteur »

archerx wrote: post #42
atemerev wrote: post #26

Not only this, the transportation network is intermodal-synchronized. Meaning that e.g. most buses will come to train stations at times that are convenient to take a train to somewhere, without much waiting. This is achieved by constant numerical simulations and optimizations of real transport patterns.

Has anybody told this to Morges? I would routinely get off the train in Bussigny just to watch the bus leave the bus stop as everyone is arriving. We would collectively let out a sigh of disgust. I've seen many people confront the following bus drivers about this problem, I know the drivers are not in control but some people just vent their frustrations on them anyway. I even saw a mass walk out of an MBC bus because…

Once per year, you are allowed to complain on https://www.projet-horaire.ch/fr/prise-de-position.html. However, the delay for next years timetable has already passed.

I did this once for a bus to a village which didn't wait on the train and they made corrections for the next scheduling. So I guess it works ?

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#47

Post by archerx »

jokteur wrote: post #43
archerx wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same train almost everyday for over a year? I'm sorry but the CFF loves smelling their own farts talking about how great they are but let's be honest here the Romandie part gets treated like a second class citizen. The trains are dirty, I remember seeing the same goop and grime on an inside train wall for over a month (I'm very consistent with my train timing so I ended up mostly taking the same train). The train…

I am sorry that you have this kind of experience. Vevey - Morges is really a weak point of the network, and I do agree that the Romandie gets treated like a second class citizen. I also use the train daily to get to Romandie (to Lausanne), and I almost never have problems: maybe the train is late every two weeks by 5 minutes.

Maybe you're lucky or my route is cursed, either way I hope you don't have to go through my awful experience. I've had hours of delays over the past year (and it is making me angry). It's sad but when I would see the delay was on 5mins I would do sigh of relief because 15-20min delays were becoming common and a 5min delay at this point becomes tolerable. Also to add extra salt to the wound, the train would leave 10mins and then wait an extra 10mins in front of the Lausanne station because reasons. In the end a 10min trip became 30mins.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#48

Post by Stevvo »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #23
immmmmm wrote: post #2

Swiss here. Amazing system, using it everyday. Brutally expensive tickets tho.

Another Swiss here. Brutally expensive? Sure, when you look at full fare tickets. Since every Swiss, who uses public transport owns a half fare card those prices are (mostly) halfed, though. When it comes to commuter travel prices become outright reasonable. The best deal, if you use the train for a regular commute intercity is the Generalabonnement[0]. ca. $4000 (6500 for first class) for a year of unrestricted trav…

However you look at, it's brutality expensive. It's nearly always cheaper to drive.

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#49

Post by flohofwoe »

Theoretically, such an integrated timetable likely also exists in Germany. And I definitely don't want to complain, all connections from my hillbilly home village to the capital run at a one hour clock cycle or better, and I only need to switch trains twice on the whole journey. If it works, it works great, but if any train is late (and usually that's the ICE between Hamburg and Munich), then all bets are off :)

Re: The integrated timetable of Switzerland

#50

Post by ornornor »

pera wrote: post #31
CaptainZapp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another Swiss here. Brutally expensive? Sure, when you look at full fare tickets. Since every Swiss, who uses public transport owns a half fare card those prices are (mostly) halfed, though. When it comes to commuter travel prices become outright reasonable. The best deal, if you use the train for a regular commute intercity is the Generalabonnement[0]. ca. $4000 (6500 for first class) for a year of unrestricted trav…

Is there any alternative to this? Because that's about 4 times the price of the normal monthly local bus pass in the US and the UK. Most people don't need to travel around the country, they just need to commute to their jobs.

1/2 fare card is about 170$ a year and gives you 50% off every train ticket.

There are yearly abos for specific routes (home to office, typically) that you can choose for 1/2/3/4/5 days a week. But the price usually gets close enough to a full GA that most people in this situation opt for a GA. And many employers cover the 1/2 fare card or GA for their employees.

SBB also (used to?) has a plan where you get a yearly GA and a Tesla or eGolf in every major train station you arrive. It feels magical: get on any train any time and when you arrive there is a car waiting for you. Use it, get back on the train, and there is another car at your destination for you to drive. It isn’t cheap but it’s a pretty neat concept.

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