Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

> 80% of the traditional dishes in my culture have no animal products in them

Big fan of Mediterranean dishes and yes if more people would have a diet like yours, i.e. more plant based dishes with occasional meat products then that would help immensely fighting deforestation and biosphere destruction.

My comment was NOT directed at you personally - since I don't know what your circumstances are. So thanks for clarifying.

I was only commenting on your statement that it's not simple to get all the nutrients when you're on a plant-based diet.

Most meat & dairy consumed on this planet comes from factory farms - that's why it's so 'cheap'. And those animals are pumped with antibiotics and they also get supplements, like B12. What I'm saying is we can cut out the 'middle-man' and consume those vitamins directly - or let the food industry fortify more foods with those vitamins.

And the reason why I mentioned addiction - because it is - here in the Western world anyway.

Listen to this podcast by the Physicians for Responsible Medicine.

https://www.pcrm.org/news/exam-room-podcast/cheese-trap

If we'd reduce our cheese consumption - we could reduce so many health problems and also free up the stress on our health system.

> You exploit your land to death

It's more the animals that are exploited to death and for what?

You quote a fast food company blog? I'll quote the Vegan Society:

> Claimed sources of B12 that have been shown through direct studies of vegans to be inadequate include human gut bacteria, spirulina, dried nori, barley grass and most other seaweeds. Several studies of raw food vegans have shown that raw food offers no special protection.

> Reports that B12 has been measured in a food are not enough to qualify that food as a reliable B12 source. It is difficult to distinguish true B12 from analogues that can disrupt B12 metabolism. Even if true B12 is present in a food, it may be rendered ineffective if analogues are present in comparable amounts to the true B12. There is only one reliable test for a B12 source - does it consistently prevent and correct deficiency? Anyone proposing a particular food as a B12 source should be challenged to present such evidence.

https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/...

And also wikipedia which is more reliable and is not trying to sell you anything:

The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics considers plant and algae sources "unreliable", stating that vegans should turn to fortified foods and supplements instead.[32]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Plants_and_algae

Depends how you measure it. You can indeed achieve higher efficiency than nature if you look at a single number. Where nature always wins is the combined efficiency, because it acts as a whole.

You example is great because it shows just that.

Solar panels might give better absolute numbers but: they are not recyclable, they can't feed cows, they are manufactured in China using materials coming from mines around the world. They need complex set-up and maintenance.

Grass if fully recyclable - in fact it builds soil after dying. It feeds other animals. It protects the soil from erosion. It mines its own materials while growing, in fact it even bootstraps itself given just a seed containing all the code that it ever needs.

A F1 car is faster on a race track, but a bicycle gets the job done much more efficiently in most cities around the world for most tasks.

Until there are actual serious studies with a large sample population from different parts of the world you can't be sure how many people will be affected and how. Also how healthily you eat is paramount. You can eat vegan trash too.

Btw, while I didn't say the line you're quoting about nutrients missing from plants, the article you're quoting is not very serious looking, with references that 404 and no way to find the actual data that I could find.

Wow, you have no honesty, do you?

I didn't reply to this:

> Plants are enough (again, don't forget your B12 vegan supplements).

With this:

> But malnutrition is scarier.

I replied to this:

> Plants are enough (again, don't forget your B12 vegan supplements).

With this:

> Plants are enough but you need B12 supplements? What for?

You have no interest in a curious and intelligent conversation. All you want is to propagandise your vegan ideology. You will lie, and lie, and ignore everything everyone says, unless they say something that suits you.

And even that, you will try to twist to your own purpose. Everything you quote from the American Dietetic Association and the NHS and so on, all that hinges on a vegan diet that is "well planned". Which is very hard to do and most vegans don't manage it. Here's the Vegan society again:

> Most vegans show adequate B12 levels to make clinical deficiency unlikely but nonetheless show restricted activity of B12 related enzymes, leading to elevated homocysteine levels. Strong evidence has been gathered over the past decade that even slightly elevated homocysteine levels increase risk of heart disease and stroke and pregnancy complications.

https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/...

"Most vegans" ... risk heart disease, stroke and pregnancy complications! "Most vegans". Most! Because they don't get enough B12!

But you insist that "plants are enough" and that everyone can get enough B12 from nori and seaweed, which is patently false. And when you're challenged about it, you pretend you've been saying that all along: don't forget your supplements folks! (in parentheses).

Well, why do you need supplements when your diet is healthy? Why do you need supplements if "plants are enough"? Why do you need supplements if you can get enough B12 fron nori and seaweed?

Because plants are not enough. You need a balanced diet to stay healthy and if you cut meat and animal products from your diet your are putting your health at risk.

But you and other vegans will never admit that because it just doesn't look good. You just want people to stop eating meat and if that means never telling them how dangerous that is to their health, well so be it.

Irresponsible, dishonest, fanatical liars.