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Ask HN: Feel bad about working in crypto, what to do?

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Re: Ask HN: Feel bad about working in crypto, what to do?

#311

Post by alphabettsy »

charcircuit wrote: post #310
9dev wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really equate product growth with a positive impact on people..? Developers working for Facebook or Google are fully aware their employer pays their salary by selling other peoples data. There is no excuse other than immorality.

Yes, no one is forcing people to use Google's search product. People use it because it has a positive impact in helping them find things easier. >by selling other peoples data Neither of these companies sell user data. Both these companies take user privacy more seriously than almost every other company on Earth.

> Neither of these companies sell user data. Both these companies take user privacy more seriously than almost every other company on Earth.

That depends on your idea of privacy. Collecting and retaining incredible amounts of data about people even without their consent isn’t my idea of respecting privacy.

Re: Ask HN: Feel bad about working in crypto, what to do?

#312

Post by jimmydorry »

alphabettsy wrote: post #311
charcircuit wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, no one is forcing people to use Google's search product. People use it because it has a positive impact in helping them find things easier. >by selling other peoples data Neither of these companies sell user data. Both these companies take user privacy more seriously than almost every other company on Earth.

> Neither of these companies sell user data. Both these companies take user privacy more seriously than almost every other company on Earth. That depends on your idea of privacy. Collecting and retaining incredible amounts of data about people even without their consent isn’t my idea of respecting privacy.

Yet GP said "selling data", not "collecting data". Google and Facebook collect hordes of data and sell access to insights of it, but not the underlying data itself as that data is far too valuable.

Re: Ask HN: Feel bad about working in crypto, what to do?

#314

Post by ReptileMan »

jeroenhd wrote: post #97

I'm one of the "haters". I see no value in crypto in 99.99% of crypto and in the cases that do make sense the actual use for it is borderline money laundering or tax evasion. All the "enthusiasts" seem to want to get rich by getting as many people as they can in their greater fool scheme of choice in the hopes of becoming a Bitcoin billionaire. The obnoxious fan base and practical scams coming out of the marketing de…

Well - it's a gold rush - so I see no reason to not get everything they provided - especially the bad parts.

And yet after the gold rush there is stuff left - San Francisco for example. After the crypto rush is over some infrastructure, knowledge, code will also be left and it may find uses and applications.

Re: Ask HN: Feel bad about working in crypto, what to do?

#315

Post by lilsoso »

pyinstallwoes wrote: post #295
mudrockbestgirl wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is crypto better lubricant than the current financial system? That's easier to answer, but it's not what's usually asked. The OP asked "what's the use case of crypto" which is kind of like asking "what is the use case of financial instruments" and that's pretty difficult to explain to someone who has zero background in finance. So why is a financial ecosystem based on crypto better? It's permissionless and make…

All of those things are contingent on perfect scenarios. As in, bug free contracts; which not to even mention the human willful engineering part of manipulating trust. Many people confuse permission and trust. The things you outline are optimistic visions for what cryptocurrencies can offer as an alternative to the "root" financial system; however it is certainly not better in every case, and only maybe better in som…

You've essentially responded with the statement that all software has bugs: "every piece of software ever written and every piece of hardware ever built has bugs and has been hacked".

The person you're responding to provided a number of cogent points. To take the bad faith interpretation of your argument we'd never use computers or online banking.

Re: Ask HN: Feel bad about working in crypto, what to do?

#316

Post by palmetieri2000 »

falcolas wrote: post #237
palmetieri2000 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a bartender morally obligated to leave because they acknowledge the harm alcohol causes to society? Is the crypto dev more or less obligated than the bartender? Really I agree with you, but also feel like this is a thread that people aren't that keen on unravelling or talking about because it leads them to realize that their job probably isn't as 'un-shady' as at first glance.

The bartender is morally (and occasionally legally) obligated to not serve alcohol to someone who is drunk. And to take car keys away from impaired people. The analogy holds, imo.

Fair points, however at least in Australia is that bartenders are legally supposed to stop serving people that are drunk, (Our Responsible Service of Alcohol laws say 'it is against the law to serve alcohol to an intoxicated customer'. My anecdotal evidence is that you actually have to be too obliterated to verbally get the order out or to stand up for that to happen.

Re: Ask HN: Feel bad about working in crypto, what to do?

#317

Post by 9dev »

jimmydorry wrote: post #312
alphabettsy wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neither of these companies sell user data. Both these companies take user privacy more seriously than almost every other company on Earth. That depends on your idea of privacy. Collecting and retaining incredible amounts of data about people even without their consent isn’t my idea of respecting privacy.

Yet GP said "selling data", not "collecting data". Google and Facebook collect hordes of data and sell access to insights of it, but not the underlying data itself as that data is far too valuable.

We can play semantics all day, but both companies sell insights and slices of data to ad customers, while acting benevolent and community-focused to their users. The valuable hordes of data you mention have been collected without users actually understanding what or why this is happening.

If you only care about getting a good pay from such a job, fine. But that just makes you immoral in my book.

Re: Ask HN: Feel bad about working in crypto, what to do?

#318

Post by wasmitnetzen »

latchkey wrote: post #303
wasmitnetzen wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do understand you feelings, but I don't see how that's a technical problem. That's an entirely legal problem. The law could easily mandate that feature to any cryptocurrency which doesn't want to go to the underground, or remove that feature from regular banking.

How is law not technical?

Law does not follow physics, it's a purely human invention. But I'm not sure how that's relevant to the discussion?

Re: Ask HN: Feel bad about working in crypto, what to do?

#319

Post by tgv »

JauntTrooper wrote: post #267
tgv wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have the ability to positively impact most of the planet (billions of people) Hundreds of thousands of people work there, yet they haven't managed to achieve that positive impact.

You don't think Google has achieved a positive impact? Search, Maps, Gmail, YouTube, Chrome, Android, Cloud, Pixel, Nest, Fitbit, Stadia, Drive? Not to mention their other projects like DeepMind / AlphaFold?

I did mention "the last 5 years". Search is from 20 years ago.

Pixel is just another phone. Fitbit, Deepmind, YouTube and Nest are not Google's. They were bought. And YouTube is a net negative impact.

Android was also acquired, and that was purely to get more control over the user and their data, as was Google Docs and Gmail. Google's management of Android is frankly horrid. Their security update policy? Buy a new phone, loser, and agree to our new terms of use!

Chrome isn't even an original Google project, but forked from WebKit, again with the intention to control the user and their data, and preferably wall them in.

No, Google has had a negative impact on the world over the last years, and they will have it as long as they dominate the markets. And the people that work on it can see it.

Re: Ask HN: Feel bad about working in crypto, what to do?

#320

Post by notahacker »

latchkey wrote: post #282
notahacker wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but for all its flaws, gold is a 5000 year old store of wealth with some use in dentistry that doesnt lose most of its value on a regular basis, not a pump and dump scheme whose wealthy foreign speculators need bagholders who havent bored of hearing about its future as global currency to bail out their artificial asset's latest collapse.

"Sure but". Look at the last 100 years of the value of gold. The value has gone all over the place, with many crashes. It isn't as stable as you think. All it takes is one single "discovery" of a massive cache of gold. That cache is then controlled by the government who's land it is found on. It is one of the most heavily manipulated forms of 'money' on the planet. It might be good enough for you, but as the person w…

Excuse me. When did I say gold was good? I said it wasn't as abominably bad as cryptocurrency, which doesn't need something as unlikely as a discovery of a massive cache of gold to wipe out poor people's meagre fortunes and is the most heavily manipulated form of money on the planet.

It's like concluding that as poor Vietnamese people already smoke (the men generally do...) in lieu of better forms of entertainment, what would really improve their lives is some crystal meth.

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