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Ask HN: How to learn mathematical proofs from scratch?

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Re: Ask HN: How to learn mathematical proofs from scratch?

#101

Just skip pen and paper proofs and go play around with Agda or Lean or something. You'll learn something much more rigorous and concrete.

Bad advice. “If you want to learn what calculation is like, use the damned calculator!” Right.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn mathematical proofs from scratch?

#102
post #14

Math undergrad student here. As another comment has already mentioned we really start learning proofs in Analysis I (the introductory Linear Algebra course in my school wasn't proof heavy) but before that at least in my school we take Intro to math I and Intro to math II, I can't recommend you a book but the topics that are covered are usually basic set theory, rules of logical inference and induction. For Analysis I…

> (I'm a bit biased here since I'm really having a hard time with baby Rudin)

Here is some help with Baby Rudin:

He wants to get to the Riemann integral, that is, the simplest version of ordinary integration in first calculus. Then for a little more, he also wants to do the Stieltjes extension of the Riemann integral.

So, he wants to integrate a function of one real variable -- he wants to keep it simple and elementary.

For this he wants to state carefully the properties of the function he wants to assume and use. Again, he goes for the simple stuff:

First he integrates the function f only over an interval, e.g., [0,1] or in general [a,b] for real numbers a and b with a closed, that is, includes the two end points a and b.

Second, he wants the function f to be continuous on that closed interval.

So, he needs to define continuous. And what is magic about the closed interval [a,b] is that it is compact. So, he wants to define compact.

Then with continuous and compact, he shows that the function is not just continuous but also uniformly continuous, and that is the crucial, central, key property of function f that makes defining the Riemann integral easy, showing that the integral exists, and establishing its basic properties.

So, Rudin takes you off on a little side journey to understand closed, continuous, compact, and uniformly continuous. Also, with the real numbers, he uses the completeness property -- the rationals are not complete and won't work; he needs the reals! It's good to know this. Completeness also generalizes, e.g., is a key property in Hilbert space and Banach space.

Now he wants to give you a little more for your money, effort, time, etc.: These concepts of completeness, closed, continuous, compact, and uniformly continuous generalize, that is, are principles as in the title of his book. So, really he is attacking, i.e., defining and developing, the simplest integral of freshman (or high school) calculus with more general concepts, closed, continuous, compact, uniformly continuous, and completeness.

And while his function f has only one real variable, he generalizes a little, takes a positive integer n and the set of real numbers R, and considers the Euclidean n-space R^n. Then he proves that in R^n, a set is compact if and only if it is both closed and bounded. Darned good to know! And the proof is not difficult and worth understanding. I used this result in a paper I published on some really tricky aspects of the Kuhn-Tucker conditions. My department got all impressed, and that eased my path to my Ph.D.

Compact: (A) Every infinite subset has a limit point. (B) Every open cover has a finite subcover. Compact via (A) and (B) is so nice that it is almost as well behaved as only finitely many points and generalizes enormously.

A real valued, continuous function with a compact domain is forced to be quite nicely behaved -- in particular to make the Riemann integral easy to develop.

Then the uniformly continuous says that if we pick a fine partition on the X-axis (the domain of function f), then the resulting partition we get on the Y-axis (the range of function f) is also fine -- so, as we make the partition fine on the X-axis, we can be sure the partition on the Y-axis will be as fine as we please which means that, with completeness, the finite Riemann sums converge and our Riemann integral is defined.

So, completeness, closed, bounded, compact, continuous, uniformly continuous -- not very difficult and worth understanding.

Then he moves on and does the basics of infinite sequences and series, enough to define logs, exponents, and the trig functions.

Rudin is especially good with Fourier theory, and there in Baby Rudin gives a solid treatment of Fourier series. Good to know. Of course, first see the connections with organ, flute, and violin music.

Last I checked he did do the inverse and implicit function theorems -- central in Lagrange multipliers and differential geometry.

And he showed that more generally the Riemann integral exists if and only if the function is continuous everywhere except on a set of measure zero -- so he touches on measure theory.

Somewhere you should see a good proof of Leibniz's Rule (differentiation under the integral sign).

Now that you see the Riemann integral, Lebesgue's approach is better: Lebesgue partitions on the Y-axis. Turns out, for handling pathological cases, that works out a lot better. It also generalizes nicely and, in particular, is a great foundation for probability theory. That is, expectation in probability is just a Lebesgue integral. Very nice.

Rudin's development of the Lebesgue integral in his Real and Complex Analysis is very nice. Royden's treatment is a little easier to read. Read them both. And there Rudin also has very nice chapters on the Fourier transform, Banach space, and Hilbert space. Read those three chapters and apparently be for all your career nicely ahead of nearly everyone in physics, chemistry, and engineering. E.g., see how the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, whatever it is in the natural world, is really just a simple result in Fourier theory.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn mathematical proofs from scratch?

#103

I really liked "a book of abstract algebra" as a first step to learning more advanced topics. It isn't as much about deriving proofs, but moreso about how to think of mathematics in terms of abstract objects that are combined together.

Seconded.

In fact, the natural answer to “how do I learn to prove” or “how do I understand mathematical notation” is that you do it by learning mathematics. In mathematics, it’s important, for example, to see how things are connected, and that’s what proofs help with. Without this mathematics turns into a largely useless collection of facts - useless because an isolated fact or a formula can rarely be used as is.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn mathematical proofs from scratch?

#104

At Imperial College London there's an intro to proofs course taught with interactive exercises supported by a proof assistant, Lean. The exercises (and the proof assistant) are freely available online at https://www.ma.imperial.ac.uk/~buzzard/xena/natural_number_g... . Disclaimer: I didn't fully work through this game, I never studied at ICL and I can't vouch for its effectiveness, I simply heard about it and thought…

This might not be the best introduction for someone who hasn't proved "a = b iff a - c = b - c", and e.g. may not be familiar with "if and only if," or the fact that P => Q is considered true if P is false, even if Q is also false.

I find that the simplest way to understand P => Q is to express it as (!P or Q).

Re: Ask HN: How to learn mathematical proofs from scratch?

#105
post #67
post #13

Undergrad discrete mathematics and symbolic logic made proof writing click for me. You have a set of things known to be true as handed down from on high, you have a set of operations to transform those true things into equivalent statements, you then go about the work of using those transformations to connect true statements together into a massive graph and extend that graph through speculation if possible. With tha…

I studied CS and it never clicked for me. For me, a proof is essentially transforming one formular into another one until someone who understands math says "yes, now you have proven it!" For me, any step is as good as the others. I wish, I could understand what's happening.

Mathematicians can skip a lot of steps because they have a good intuition of what's possible and what's not, so it's enough when they know that in principle something could be proven. But this can make it hard for a beginner to understand what reasoning is allowed and what isn't allowed. However, when going back to foundations, I've found that how proofs work is surprisingly simple.

For example, in Metamath[0] (which was mentioned in another comment), there are just two inference rules. First is modus ponens[1], which says "if A is true, and if A being true implies that B is true, then B is true". Second is the rule of generalization[2], which says "if A is unconditionally true, then for all x A is true". If you start with the axiomatic statements of classical logic + set theory, pretty much all of mathematics can be inferred just by repeatedly applying these two rules to derive more true statements.

The hard part is developing a good feel for what's possible within this system and what's not, so that you can start skipping large numbers of steps too. As someone who's self-learning this stuff I've personally found exploring Metamath very helpful for this, because I find it helpful to break things down to the foundations when I'm not sure about a bit of reasoning, and Metamath is good at breaking things down to the foundations. But to each their own. Regardless, if you haven't already done so, I'd recommend learning classical logic if you want to understand proofs.

[0] http://us.metamath.org/mpeuni/mmset.html

[1] http://us.metamath.org/mpeuni/ax-mp.html

[2] http://us.metamath.org/mpeuni/ax-gen.html

Re: Ask HN: How to learn mathematical proofs from scratch?

#106
You might find my own effort in this area appropriate to you: https://prooftoys.org/. Whether it is _exceedingly gentle_ is a legitimate question, but the site works hard to present logic and an embedded deductive system for learners whose background may be just ordinary high school mathematics. You might think of the website in these parts:

1) An introduction to logic through pictures, basically Venn diagrams with explanation. This is a point of view on propositional calculus.

2) A brief presentation of the rules of the logic of "simple type theory" at a raw beginner's level.

3) A number of completely rigorous simple proofs, some in pure logic, and some about real numbers, starting from the classic "complete ordered field" axioms that define the behavior of real numbers. The proofs are all done by computer from the ground up using the logic and axioms (with a handful of gaps). The proofs are all available for reading online, down to any level of detail, interactively, and at the reader's discretion.

4) A web-based tool that lets you build and edit your own proofs.

User feedback on the site is very welcome, and I will answer questions also as far as I am able.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn mathematical proofs from scratch?

#108

You need a good tutor. I suggest finding a math major at a local university to teach you. The problem is that, from what I can infer from your description, you don't have the fundamental skills necessary to self-tech effectively. You could try using some of the resources mentioned by other commenters, but chances are this process will much more tedious than if you had a mentor, and you'll probably come to believe var…

Yes, you are right. I've taught proofs in a college setting for thirty years, both in a Discrete Math class largely for CS majors and in a Math major course (done inquiry style). People often convince themselves that they have things right when they are mistaken. Everyone does it, even the best students. OP, you should try to get someone to work with you.

>> You need a good tutor.

> OP, you should try to get someone to work with you.

Those both sound like great suggestions to me.

When I was a linguistics major in college, around 1976, I started wondering about pure mathematics—it seemed a lot more interesting than high-school calculus, which had snuffed out my previous interest in math—so I took an introductory class in abstract algebra. It was the first math class I had taken that was oriented around proofs rather than calculation, and I had trouble at first understanding what proofs were and how I was supposed to come up with them.

I went to see the professor during his office hours to ask for advice, and he told me something like this: “A proof is basically a story you tell to other mathematicians.” It took a while for the meaning of his advice to sink in, but it did eventually, especially after I took a couple of seminar-style classes in which the students worked on proofs together.

Looking back now, I would summarize what I learned then as follows: A proof is a story you tell to other intelligent, knowledgeable people to convince them that the theorem is true. As with all story-telling, you have to adjust what you say and how you say it depending on your audience and on their knowledge and expectations. If you are new to mathematical proofs, then you need to work with other people for a while to learn how mathematicians use proofs to tell stories to each other.

Re: Ask HN: How to learn mathematical proofs from scratch?

#109
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the reasons that the proof of 2 + 2 = 4 is so long is that 2 and 4 are complex numbers—i.e. we are really proving (2+0i) + (2+0i) = (4+0i) Yeah, this is why

Right. That seems like an unnecessary detour to me.

It's necessary to go down to the level of axioms and do one step at a time. It's obviously not needed for us to see that this proof is correct.

A human proof would probably not generally go beyond something like:

2+2=4

1+1+1+1 = 1+1+1+1 // Substitute the definitions of 2 (1+1) and 4 (1+1+1+1)

Re: Ask HN: How to learn mathematical proofs from scratch?

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you are right. I've taught proofs in a college setting for thirty years, both in a Discrete Math class largely for CS majors and in a Math major course (done inquiry style). People often convince themselves that they have things right when they are mistaken. Everyone does it, even the best students. OP, you should try to get someone to work with you.

>> You need a good tutor. > OP, you should try to get someone to work with you. Those both sound like great suggestions to me. When I was a linguistics major in college, around 1976, I started wondering about pure mathematics—it seemed a lot more interesting than high-school calculus, which had snuffed out my previous interest in math—so I took an introductory class in abstract algebra. It was the first math class I…

Exactly. Proof writing is basically impossible to learn without this kind of social context and feedback.
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