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Webcams aren't good enough

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Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#391

Post by sephamorr »

kylecordes wrote: post #351
adrusi wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphone cameras are small and far better sensors than what you get in webcams. They rely on software to produce images of the quality we're used to seeing, especially with less-than-ideal lighting, but the lenses and sensor are still far better than the Logitech C920. A webcam doesn't need the latest and greatest video hardware. Give it a camera module from a midrange 2017 smartphone and use the latest image proce…

This is the answer. Camera and processor from a several-year-old smart phone, which is now quite cheap. Sell it for $500. So far no one has, there must be a reason no one can.

Ironically, the Apple Studio Display has a A13 processor inside it for camera and other processing. Misses your $500 price point by a long way though!

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#392

Post by 23seaborn »

mchusma wrote: post #212
rlei wrote: post #171

I'm the cofounder at Lumina - we're building a modern webcam designed to solve some of these problems. There's really been a lack of innovation in the entire home office space, with the webcam being particularly bad. It sucks that a decade-old product (Logitech C920) is still the bestselling product today -- that would be like if Apple stopped releasing new phones after the iPhone 4S (launched 2012), and it remained…

I bought a Lumina in December. It still doesn't do automatic tuning of the video. Everything requires manual adjustment. I can't just have it...work. It requires tons of adjustments. It even ships with a color card, which I assume is to automatically tune things, but it fails miserably. I have tried tuning it a dozen times, but maybe I can get it right until the light changes (I am by windows). Finally, after about 5…

Agreed. I backed it and was really hoping to like it. I've since switched back to my Brio. I felt like it took work just to get the quality I was used to with my Brio. It felt like it added more steps and the end result was only on par.

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#393

Post by GekkePrutser »

theelous3 wrote: post #279
rlei wrote: post #171

I'm the cofounder at Lumina - we're building a modern webcam designed to solve some of these problems. There's really been a lack of innovation in the entire home office space, with the webcam being particularly bad. It sucks that a decade-old product (Logitech C920) is still the bestselling product today -- that would be like if Apple stopped releasing new phones after the iPhone 4S (launched 2012), and it remained…

> that would be like if Apple stopped releasing new phones after the iPhone 4S (launched 2012), and it remained the bestselling phone through now. If I can be a bit cheeky - this sounds like exactly the kind of frankly ridiculous comparison a founder would make about their product alright. The reality is - nobody really cares that much . Whatever image you record is going to be gigga-smashed by whatever application y…

I don't agree, my boss uses his iPhone a lot and I have commented on the quality of his video and I've seen tons of others do the same. This is with most people using their laptop's cams though which are admittedly terrible. And with MS Teams which is not very good at coping with poor video sources (even the free Jitsi is tons better).

Audio is important too yes but we all get noisecancelling headsets in work that make this a non-issue. I live in a really noisy street and most of the year I have the windows wide open (Spain :) ) but curiously they don't even hear it unless one of those d*cks with a muffler-less motorbike races past.

By the way how does the gopro work out as a webcam? Never thought of that but it might be an option.

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#394

Post by stevage »

Question for people using Came: isn't it annoying having your phone locked up for the whole video call? No way to even check your notifications or do anything else on it? And constantly having to plug and unplug it, adding more wear to the delicate USB C sensor?

Or do you use an old phone for Camo instead?

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#395

Post by IgorPartola »

berny222 wrote: post #339
rlei wrote: post #171

I'm the cofounder at Lumina - we're building a modern webcam designed to solve some of these problems. There's really been a lack of innovation in the entire home office space, with the webcam being particularly bad. It sucks that a decade-old product (Logitech C920) is still the bestselling product today -- that would be like if Apple stopped releasing new phones after the iPhone 4S (launched 2012), and it remained…

Could you explain what you mean by 'hardware is viewed as hard'?

Imagine you ship a webcam and then find out that one of the capacitors you used is undersized and the camera randomly reboots when another USB device is plugged into a nearby port. You just shipped 5,000 of these and customers are unhappy.

Unlike software you can’t just issue an update. You must manufacture new devices, issue refunds, send replacements. And all the while your competitor sells a very comparable $50 device so you can’t charge a subscription fee and make thousands off each customer over a lifetime. Software margins are huge compared to hardware and risk is often much much lower.

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#396

Post by GekkePrutser »

ip26 wrote: post #272
rlei wrote: post #171

I'm the cofounder at Lumina - we're building a modern webcam designed to solve some of these problems. There's really been a lack of innovation in the entire home office space, with the webcam being particularly bad. It sucks that a decade-old product (Logitech C920) is still the bestselling product today -- that would be like if Apple stopped releasing new phones after the iPhone 4S (launched 2012), and it remained…

I think mics and webcams suffer a simple problem: the person who enjoys the benefit of higher quality is not the operator. Indeed, the operator may never experience how they look or sound.

And if they do it's because someone else has their speakers too loud and creates an awful echo :)

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#397

Post by GekkePrutser »

jrockway wrote: post #303
ip26 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think mics and webcams suffer a simple problem: the person who enjoys the benefit of higher quality is not the operator. Indeed, the operator may never experience how they look or sound.

That might be true, but your reputation is at stake as well. For the same reason that you might wear a suit to an important meeting, you might also take steps to ensure that your video and audio quality are presentable when you're having an important meeting virtually. (Of course, once you've paid the cost for that, you can just do a good job for all meetings. Much easier than a trip to the dry cleaners.)

Not even just reputation. I have seen people with poor (often too soft) audio get 'snowed under' while trying to raise a point. It's much easier to ignore someone who is less 'in your face'. In that sense I think it's really important for effectiveness in meetings.

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#398

Post by stevage »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #349
vhanda wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they meant to buy an extra android phone and use that as a webcam.

I guess I don't understand the mechanism where by you use an android phone as an external webcam. Guess I never tried just plugging it in via usb and seeing if my OS picked it up...

The OP is literally a blog post on Camo, software that does this.

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#399

Post by dubswithus »

rlei wrote: post #171

I'm the cofounder at Lumina - we're building a modern webcam designed to solve some of these problems. There's really been a lack of innovation in the entire home office space, with the webcam being particularly bad. It sucks that a decade-old product (Logitech C920) is still the bestselling product today -- that would be like if Apple stopped releasing new phones after the iPhone 4S (launched 2012), and it remained…

No post body was provided.

Re: Webcams aren't good enough

#400

Post by GekkePrutser »

Terretta wrote: post #216
rlei wrote: post #171

I'm the cofounder at Lumina - we're building a modern webcam designed to solve some of these problems. There's really been a lack of innovation in the entire home office space, with the webcam being particularly bad. It sucks that a decade-old product (Logitech C920) is still the bestselling product today -- that would be like if Apple stopped releasing new phones after the iPhone 4S (launched 2012), and it remained…

First, I like what Lumina is trying to do. I pre-ordered, and since receiving the first batch, have been, and will keep, buying them. However, caveat emptor. Right now, buyers should support Lumina to support innovation in this space, but be prepared to pay a quality price while they work on it. Several ideas didn’t work out, and they’re trying to correct. Each software release is better, but I worry the hardware sen…

> True, so that wouldn’t fit in a laptop bag.

I don't think it even needs to be this big. These outdoor security cameras have big metal enclosures for heat dissipation, weather shielding, PoE circuitry (transformers) and other stuff that a webcam won't need. There's also the "bigger looks better" effect in this market. After all, most of the applications of these rely on deterrence and it's important that potential thieves notice them. I wouldn't be surprised if that case is half empty.

I'm sure they could make a webcam with these optics and processing in a respectable size/weight. I really wish they would, too.

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