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Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

neo.life

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Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#111

Post by cheese_goddess »

issa wrote: post #25

It is pretty insane when you think about it. We could get all the climate harm reduction benefits the article mentions if people would just choose to eat plants instead. Seems like a very simple solution.

People could choose to eat plants insted, but they'll also need to take supplements to avoid becoming malnourished, for example deficient in B12 vitamin.

Feeding everyone a vegan diet and making sure that everyone is scrupulously watching their nutrients and taking appropriate supllementation on a planetary scale moves your "simple solution" to the realm of science fantasy.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#112

Post by cute_boi »

azakai wrote: post #33
manigandham wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s nothing simple about changing human nature. If you have to start with "if people would just choose" then it's not viable.

It's not simple, you're right, but history has shown again and again that it can be viable. Society has made a lot of progress. In the end people can just choose. If someone reading this right now eats meat, then you can make the choice to eat more plants. Please do so as much as you can, that will make a difference in saving the planet!

I hope vegan food becomes cheaper & it is very wild that vegan restaurant are generally more expensive due to economics & subsidy.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#113

Post by cheese_goddess »

aszantu wrote: post #46
azakai wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not simple, you're right, but history has shown again and again that it can be viable. Society has made a lot of progress. In the end people can just choose. If someone reading this right now eats meat, then you can make the choice to eat more plants. Please do so as much as you can, that will make a difference in saving the planet!

I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion) There is something called bio-availability and there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants. But it would be nice if there were public pig pens where you could recycle food waste into bacon. Transportation is the biggest co2 producer...

> I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion)

I mean no offense, and I'm no vegan (ha ha no), but it sounds like you need a therapist more than you need a butcher. There is no way that eating plants gives you depression. It's even less likely that "it takes 4 days" for it to go off.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#114

Post by cute_boi »

ibz wrote: post #83
myshpa wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a proper environment (= this is not right). https://c7.alamy.com/comp/2AB4XKW/kersey-colorado-a-cattle-f... https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/feedlot-picture-id17360... https://www.africahunting.com/attachments/cattle-feed-lot-jp...

Straw man. Cows should be grazing, not being locked up and fed corn. Grazing cows actually make the environment better. So rather than blaming cows, blame the way they have been grown over the past 50 years or so.

Yes, the problem is scale. Also, we live in capitalism, so scaling is absolutely necessary to reap huge profits. Cows are not direct problem, just like gun violence?

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#115

Post by cheese_goddess »

azakai wrote: post #100
manigandham wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes society has made a lot of progress - in offering more freedom, luxury and opportunity to more people than ever before - like eating meat. Give me an example of the reverse happening. We cannot "choose" our way out of this situation by somehow getting the entire globe to agree to want less.

For example, animal cruelty. Over time people have been choosing to abuse animals less and less, and today many societies have an increasing number of laws protecting animals. There are lots of other examples. Domestic violence against a spouse, and violence against children, are things that have changed a lot. Things that were once considered normal, like marital rape or beating a misbehaving child, are now socially…

Eating less meat is not "more moral" it's just what you want people to do.

It's always the same thing, when a post is about the environment the vegans come in and start telling everyone to stop eating meat to save the planet.

But somehow I don't see vegans ever telling people to drive less, walk more, wash their clothes by hand, not throw out electronic devices just to get new ones etc etc, it's just eating meat that you want them to stop doing. Yet, the cause of climate change, and its main driver, is burning fossil fuels, not farming. 3/4s of carbon emissions come from burning fossil fuels for enegry production in sectors other than agriculture:

https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector#sector-by-sec...

But when vegans are concerned about the environment it's always eating less meat they tell others to do, not burn less fossil fuels. Why? Why is it more urgent to stop 1/4 of the damage to the environment that 3/4s?

It's not more urgent, it's just your ideology that says it's more important to eat less meat than stop climate change.

I wish that HN had clear guidelines against trying to prosyletise people into somebody's political, or metaphysical beliefs.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#116

Post by cheese_goddess »

myshpa wrote: post #69
aszantu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion) There is something called bio-availability and there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants. But it would be nice if there were public pig pens where you could recycle food waste into bacon. Transportation is the biggest co2 producer...

> I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion) Eat a diverse low-fat, whole plant-based diet - if you don't how or what, find yourself a weekly vegan meal plan. Supplement with B12 and you'll be fine. Learn to cook, explore vegan meals/recipes from around the world, stay away from processed food. > There is something called bio-availability and there are nu…

Wow way to mislead with graphics! This is where your first plot comes from:

https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

And it doesn't say that transport etc is a miniscule part in CO2 production. It says that of all emissions from farming, transport is a small part compared to land use change. But you present it like it's emissions from farming compared to all other emissions. Way to go!

> That's a lie you've been told. Plants are enough (again, don't forget your B12 vegan supplements).

Plants are enough but you need B12 supplements? What for?

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#117

Post by cheese_goddess »

myshpa wrote: post #67
pcthrowaway wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head, DHA/EPA Omega 3s, Creatine, and Glucosamine aren't really found in plants. I think Choline and B12 are hard to get adequate amounts from plant sources as well. I think you can live OK without those (I'm vegan), but supplementing the above from non-animal sources is probably a good idea, or at least not a bad one.

There is a lot of non-animal sources for that stuff. We don't need animals for production of dietary supplements. IMHO vegans need to supplement only B12, as we live in too sterile environments to get enought of it naturally, for other things sufficiently diverse diet should suffice. DHA/EPA Omega 3s - algae, seaweed, spirulina, flaxseed, chiaseeds, hempseeds, wallnuts, cruciferous vegetables (brussel sprouts) Creati…

Great way to eat if you live in a rich country, or, dunno, California, I guess.

Rather than saying "vegan", why not be honest and just say "Silicon Valley diet"?

"Spirulina", "seaweed", "edamame"... I guess I can enjoy my nutritional definiciencies then, eh? Because there's no spirulina, or edible seaweeds, or edamame within a boat trip of where I live.

Btw: you can't get enough B12 from any of the sources you list. But who's afraid of B12 deficiency, when it's for a good cause, amirite?

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#118

Post by azakai »

cheese_goddess wrote: post #115
azakai wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, animal cruelty. Over time people have been choosing to abuse animals less and less, and today many societies have an increasing number of laws protecting animals. There are lots of other examples. Domestic violence against a spouse, and violence against children, are things that have changed a lot. Things that were once considered normal, like marital rape or beating a misbehaving child, are now socially…

Eating less meat is not "more moral" it's just what you want people to do. It's always the same thing, when a post is about the environment the vegans come in and start telling everyone to stop eating meat to save the planet. But somehow I don't see vegans ever telling people to drive less, walk more, wash their clothes by hand, not throw out electronic devices just to get new ones etc etc, it's just eating meat that…

> It's always the same thing, when a post is about the environment the vegans come in and start telling everyone to stop eating meat to save the planet.

In both of my comments above I didn't ask people to stop eating meat. Just to eat less of it.

> But somehow I don't see vegans ever telling people to drive less, walk more, wash their clothes by hand, not throw out electronic devices just to get new ones etc etc

I and most vegans I know do most of the above. (I'd also add "fly less" to the list, that one has a big impact!)

You are right, the 1/4 is not more urgent than the 3/4. (But let's make progress on all of it!)

Overall, I get that you've encountered some annoying vegans. Some are vocal and toxic. But please don't judge us by that small group. And regardless of what you think of vegans, that's just the messenger, while the message that eating less meat helps the planet is true regardless.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#119

Post by cheese_goddess »

manigandham wrote: post #85
myshpa wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not human nature. It's just a tradition. And a tradition is just a story (maybe even a lie) we've been taught, and which we tell ourselves. Stories are easily changed - like slavery or patriarchy, for example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7JE8j5Ncmw

Eating meat is human nature (and biology). We can digest just about any meat there is. We cannot digest any plant. Try eating a tree branch and see how far you get. Likewise humans (like other animals) will always have tribal and territorial tendencies manifested in enslavement, war and conquest. First-world nations developed over centuries and still have countless problems, and they're only a minority of the global…

> We cannot digest any plant.

I am really dying to know what exactly you mean by that. Just yesterday I murdered a couple plates of spaghetti with a sauce with onions, garlic, baby tomatoes, tomato puree, and plenty of paprika, cayenne, black, green and white pepper, all sauteyd in extra virgin olive oil. The only thing that wasn't plants in that was the whey from my cheesemaking that I use in cooking to avoid waste. Works great to thicken sauces, soups, stews, etc.

Today was cheesemaking day so I didn't have time to cook and I only had a salad, but I'm bringing up yesterday's meal because I can say with certainty that it was digested. Like, around this morning when I got up I could not miss it.

So what the hell do you mean "we cannot digest any plants"? Who's we? Sharks? Cats? Spiders? Who?

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#120

Post by cheese_goddess »

Schroedingersat wrote: post #96
manigandham wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s nothing simple about changing human nature. If you have to start with "if people would just choose" then it's not viable.

You start with not subsidizing the meat industry massively (via direct handouts, subsidized feed and so on) and making them pay for exterrnalities. That way they'll have vastly less money for advertising and lobbying. Then you take the trillions you've saved and use it to bring healthy, convenient, tasty options to put in front of them. It's actually pretty easy to get people to make different choices, you just make…

> That way they'll have vastly less money for advertising and lobbying.

You think that people eat meat because of lobbying and advertisting from the meat industry? Like tobacco, or alcohol? Or gambling? Is that the idea?

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