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How to Not Get Hit by Cars

bicyclesafe.com

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Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#181

Post by carapace »

Findecanor wrote: post #100
polote wrote: post #39

That's not riding a bike which is dangerous it is riding in the same zones as cars as the article points out. May people say we shouldn't trust anyone to carry guns, but we allow anyone to drive a car, that's at least as much dangerous. All the examples of the articles are good, but there are two many to learn and remember. I follow one and only one rule when I ride my bike. Assume you can get killed at every time an…

If I had the power to, I would downvote you because you are blaming the victim, being smug about it, even abusive. If you are riding your bike in the city and the streets are congested enough, there will always be a car close behind you. As there are cars ahead of you, to the right of you and on the street to the left that you would have to look out for. There are limits to how defensively you can ride, and at the en…

I don't read that comment as blaming or smug, and certainly not abusive.

I ride my bike in city traffic and that's exactly the attitude I adopt: every one of these car drivers is going to kill me, and it's my responsibility to do whatever I can to prevent that. Laws and courtesy are great, but physics has no mercy.

The fact that most of the time we can rely on each other to pay attention, drive well, stop at stop signs, etc. is really wonderful, it's a daily affirmation that, despite all the rhetoric, we actually do care about each other.

But consider that more USA-ians have died in car collisions than in all the wars we've fought. Mixed car and bike (and pedestrian) traffic is insane. I call it the "mayhem lottery", but it's an imperfect metaphor: you don't have to buy a ticket to play, just be anywhere near the street. (Even indoors! People routinely drive off the road and into buildings!)

Anyhow, yes, of course bad drivers should have their licenses revoked (or even go to prison? Seems extreme to me but then again some of these drivers are downright homicidal, eh?) But it behooves you as a bike rider to defend yourself if you're going to run with the multi-ton high-speed metal. It's just common sense, eh?

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#182

Post by paulnpace »

gjm11 wrote: post #176
paulnpace wrote: post #72

Here is one that bicyclists really hate: Don't ride on narrow back-county roads where you block the regular flow of traffic. I used to live on one such road and the bicyclists regularly insisted I travel >30 MPH below the speed limit because of a long uphill section that was double yellow due to many curves and hillsides blocking the line of site for passing. Bicyclists would get visibly angry at drivers who were not…

I don't think I understand. Apparently it's unreasonable for one set of road users to say to another "When we're around, you have to go much more slowly on this road than you would like to". But it's not unreasonable for one set of road users to say to another: "You must not use this road at all". Actually, I'm not being entirely sincere. I think I understand very well: you think that car drivers are proper road user…

Yes, the universe shall operate on the bicyclist's time and speed. Anyone disagreeing with this is hostile and should receive lashes for being such an angry hater of anything that is good and just in this world.

I think the problem here is there is scarce resources, and you cannot understand or deal with this in any other way than to force everyone to live in the universe as you expect them to.

All people shall travel at the speed of the bicyclists. This is good and just and non-negotiable.

(And your math is flawed - how much time does the bicyclist lose by pulling over and allowing the cars to pass - can you even see your incredible bias here?)

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#183

Post by alisonatwork »

thomasahle wrote: post #117
Retric wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just understand if you take up a traffic lane when a bike lane is right next to you, some cars will pass you then slow down to walking speed in front of you. Hostility results in hostility, and you’re not surrounded by steel.

> some cars will pass you then slow down to walking speed in front of you. I have never heard of this happening to anybody.

Sadly this sort of thing happens a lot in the US. You can even see shades of it in HN threads about cycling - there seems to be an unreasonable level of anger and resentment toward people who choose to bike. Another thing you see in certain parts of the country is "coal rolling", which I had never even heard of (much less experienced) until I cycled through the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal It's really astounding how far out of their way some people will go to try to annoy or harass those who made a different lifestyle choice. Best thing I figured to do was ignore it. Fortunately the majority of drivers aren't this petty or antagonistic.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#184

Post by xaedes »

How to avoid all of these: Have and use bike lanes that are isolated from car lanes, e.g. on sidewalks.

Avoid crossing street at intersections that are not ultimately regulated by traffic lights. Instead try to find a crossing, preferable with traffic lights, on a street with enough distance to intersections where cars could suddenly appear from.

Instead one is often instructed to ride right next between/to cars in the middle of the lane. In the name of safety! Shaking my head... Would you let your child rather ride its bike between those metal monsters or in actual safety? Some countries have exceptions for children, that allow them to ride on sidewalk, even when adults are required to ride on car line. Why is that? Maybe because it is safer for the children. Well then it should apply in general regardless of age. Cars are dangerous.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#185

Post by varajelle »

throw_a_grenade wrote: post #166
Cockbrand wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a traffic* lane when there is a bike lane is not necessarily hostility. I'd even argue that it's rarely hostility. It might be that the bike lane is full of potholes, or dirty/icy/full of foliage or debris, so it's uncomfortable or unsafe. Or there could be a lot of parking with potentially opening car doors right next to the bike lane. * traffic doesn't only consist of cars. Bikes, pedestrians, wheelchairs are…

It pretty much is, and it's also illegal at least where I live -- cyclists are required to use bike ways/lanes if present, and cyclist's opinion about its serviceability doesn't matter if the bike way isn't officially closed. It's also stretching luck, because whoever designed the intersections could have assumed there are no bikes on the road, since they all are required to ride bike way and therefore might be less…

Where I live it is only mandatory to use the bike line if there is a sign mandating it (blue circle with a bike drawn in it), but otherwise bikes are free to take the road if they prefer (because many of bike lines are in bad shape, too narrow, or shared with the pedestrian)

And the road designer know that because the road marking near traffic lights still have spacial mark for the cyclist, despite the bike line next to it.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#187

Post by kqr »

tzs wrote: post #165
kqr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually go for "where the driver's seat would be".

But check your local laws first. There are often specific rules for bicycles in the traffic. Here, for example, is Washington state's law on lane position: RCW 46.61.770 Riding on roadways and bicycle paths. (1) Every person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place shall ride as near to the right side of the right through lane as is sa…

> shall ride as near to the right side of the right through lane as is safe

...so basically what the grandparent is saying?

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#188

Post by dotancohen »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #179
dotancohen wrote: post #98

Car driver here, not a bicyclist. I don't see your side of the story, and probably never will unless I kill one of you. Don't want me to hit you? Make yourself visible and courteous. Put on a bright jacket, bright helmet, or something else bright. And use a steady (not flashing) red light in the back and a steady (not flashing) white light aimed at the ground in the front. If you use flashing lights I cannot tell how…

>> Don't want me to hit you? Not a bike rider, but if you don't want to hit anyone, then you should try not to, regardless of whatever anyone else is doing. Btw, you proably didn't intend it that way but your comment comes across as threatening to hit somebody.

  > "Me" being all car drivers. I specifically might not try to squeeze past bike
  > riders, and I specifically might actually be patient on the road. But the
  > proverbial "me" is the worst of the car drivers for purpose of this post.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#189

Post by avianlyric »

Eigenstate wrote: post #158
avianlyric wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a solution! Protected cycle lanes! Keep cycles, cars and pedestrians physically separated. Inside towns and cities we should be looking to give up road space for cars, to put in dedicated cycle infrastructure. Dedicated cycle infrastructure keeps cars and cycles separate, makes cycling safer, and most importantly more accessible and friendly. Every additional cycle on the road during rush hour is one less ca…

How do protected cycle lanes mitigate the crash types in the article? I see how they may prevent getting rear ended or doored, but all the intersection conflict points remain and in many cases are exacerbated by the "protection." I've seen lane designs that force cyclists to pass right turning cars on the right at intersections. Often the barriers reduce visibility and tell drivers they don't have to be aware of bike…

Pretty simple, cycles get their own cycle on lights at crossing, and you ban right turns on red. Right turns on red are such a stupid idea, a tiny time saving for a minority of people, but a huge increase in risk for vulnerable road users.

As for branch junctions along the road, priority is given to bikes going in the direction of traffic, and you build tables across the junction, reduce junction radius, both force cars to slow down when turning into junctions, and make it clear they need to look for other road users.

These are all solved problems. The Netherlands publishes an extremely well respected guide on exactly how to build people-centric road infrastructure that massively reduces collisions and road incidents. There’s no need to reinvent anything, just look at countries that have road death rates at a fraction of what the US has.

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