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Bolt has a cool web interface and they really don't want you to use it

toot.kuba-orlik.name

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Re: Bolt has a cool web interface and they really don't want you to use it

#31

Post by addicted »

mojuba wrote: post #9

There's an (unverified) myth that retention on mobile apps is better. This is one of those things that marketing people keep telling each other without ever verifying the facts. (Unless you deliberately make the web version inferior, of course.) The reasoning behind it is that you should take real estate on the user's home screen at all costs, because your app's icon will serve as a reminder and people will allegedly…

My Reddit usage has basically plummeted to 0 at this point because of their pushing me towards an app.

I think there are provable cases where an app almost certainly leads to less retention than more and something like Reddit, whose value lies in allowing you to explore the internet is almost certainly one of them.

Re: Bolt has a cool web interface and they really don't want you to use it

#32

Post by unsafecast »

jjjjjjjjjjjjjjj wrote: post #2

This reminds me of Reddit's approach to mobile. They make their mobile web interface excruciating to use, and block features client side just to push you onto their app. I'm guessing it has to do with mobile users being more lucrative?

They do the same thing to old.reddit.com (cookie banners redirect there, etc)

Like, I get that you don't update it anymore, and I don't need (or want) you to, but the new version is insanely slow on my computer, so just let me use whatever I want please.

Re: Bolt has a cool web interface and they really don't want you to use it

#33

Post by mojuba »

reducesuffering wrote: post #27
mojuba wrote: post #9

There's an (unverified) myth that retention on mobile apps is better. This is one of those things that marketing people keep telling each other without ever verifying the facts. (Unless you deliberately make the web version inferior, of course.) The reasoning behind it is that you should take real estate on the user's home screen at all costs, because your app's icon will serve as a reminder and people will allegedly…

> Deception works momentarily and can have an immediate effect on some metrics. Long terms though, every user and no matter how smart or dumb, will eventually assess the value it gets them against the money, against their time, or against the "home screen real estate" they provided. Long term hardly matters for most these days, they're optimizing for $ and promotions as mercenaries. That metric bump will get the PM p…

Exactly. Short terms tricks are often also used right before a funding round or acquisition.

Re: Bolt has a cool web interface and they really don't want you to use it

#34

Post by manigandham »

kuba-orlik wrote: post #28
manigandham wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you calling it an unverified myth? In reality there are petabytes generated everyday proving the efficacy of mobile apps vs websites. This has been tested and measured in pretty much every possible way at this point with 100s of billions in ad spend. It's not just real estate on the screen, it's faster on-device processing with lower latency, rich offline abilities, better and more persistent access to more A…

But in the context of Bolt, I believe they aren't displaying ads in their app?

My reply was against mobile app retention being a myth. I don't know the reasons for Bolt but it's unlikely to do with ads.

Re: Bolt has a cool web interface and they really don't want you to use it

#35

Post by unsafecast »

natch wrote: post #19
kuba-orlik wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. I just don't want to make patching it easier for Bolt

About one thing you said, Apple and Google need not be lumped together. They are as different as night and day.

I think they meant that ios and android are the only companies that apps are made for (so they're the only platforms people actually use), hence it's a duopoly.

Re: Bolt has a cool web interface and they really don't want you to use it

#36

Post by kuba-orlik »

current_thing wrote: post #17

> we, the users, are compliant with such abuse of monopoly. But Bolt is not a monopoly. There are many taxi services in Riga. > I invite you to boycott any company that forces (or coerces) you to install an app... I do not think I will boycott Bolt just because you hacked their product and somehow become outraged. Bolt rides are cheaper than the alternative and .. the app works. The alternative mainstream taxi app ne…

> But Bolt is not a monopoly. There are many taxi services in Riga.

My experience is that if you don't speak Latvian, Bolt is basically the only choice to order a ride in Riga. Oh trust me, how I've tried. I never use those ride hailing services unless there's no other option left.

> No thanks I will not boycott Bolt because you chose to violate some ToS and hack their product and somehow become outraged.

Well, I'm not inviting people to boycott Bolt because I "hacked their product". I'm inviting to boycott Bolt because they are using dark patterns to take control away from users.

Re: Bolt has a cool web interface and they really don't want you to use it

#37

Post by captn3m0 »

gregdoesit wrote: post #15

I formerly worked at Uber. I’m surprised that Bolt blocks the web app from working. Uber also built a web app which is incredibly lightweight - here’s a summary on how it was built [1]. It’s a life saver especially if e.g. at an airport and you pay for data over roaming. Uber doesn’t exactly advertise m.uber.com, but there’s no blocking of it. My suspect is that Bold wants you to use their app as they can eg send pus…

Uber actually had two of these: m.uber and dial.uber.com which was geo-fenced to India and from what I understood (looking at the UX, API calls etc) built by a separate team.

The latter was shut down unceremoniously a few years ago, but that was always my favourite thing to point out how over-engineered Uber often was - to the point of having two separate mobile websites for the exact same purpose.

Re: Bolt has a cool web interface and they really don't want you to use it

#38

Post by thejosh »

addicted wrote: post #31
mojuba wrote: post #9

There's an (unverified) myth that retention on mobile apps is better. This is one of those things that marketing people keep telling each other without ever verifying the facts. (Unless you deliberately make the web version inferior, of course.) The reasoning behind it is that you should take real estate on the user's home screen at all costs, because your app's icon will serve as a reminder and people will allegedly…

My Reddit usage has basically plummeted to 0 at this point because of their pushing me towards an app. I think there are provable cases where an app almost certainly leads to less retention than more and something like Reddit, whose value lies in allowing you to explore the internet is almost certainly one of them.

Best thing reddit did to break my use of them:

1/ New UI, forcing people on to old.reddit.com 2/ Mobile pushes HARD for their app, which is pretty buggy on Android from what I can tell 3/ old.reddit.com now shows "other links" midway down the page! Absolutely useless. 4/ old.reddit.com now forces "show more comments"

This is why people left digg to go to reddit. :-)

All I want is the old reddit interface in the middle, feel free to place ads on the right. I even went reddit gold or whatever it was called for a while. I really miss the old reddit UI, there is so much good tech information on reddit for random things, that it's a shame.

Re: Bolt has a cool web interface and they really don't want you to use it

#39

Post by atlasunshrugged »

kuba-orlik wrote: post #36
current_thing wrote: post #17

> we, the users, are compliant with such abuse of monopoly. But Bolt is not a monopoly. There are many taxi services in Riga. > I invite you to boycott any company that forces (or coerces) you to install an app... I do not think I will boycott Bolt just because you hacked their product and somehow become outraged. Bolt rides are cheaper than the alternative and .. the app works. The alternative mainstream taxi app ne…

> But Bolt is not a monopoly. There are many taxi services in Riga. My experience is that if you don't speak Latvian, Bolt is basically the only choice to order a ride in Riga. Oh trust me, how I've tried. I never use those ride hailing services unless there's no other option left. > No thanks I will not boycott Bolt because you chose to violate some ToS and hack their product and somehow become outraged. Well, I'm n…

At the end you talk about having laws passed. What sort of law do you want passed exactly (and do you mean EU, specific EU countries, US, elsewhere)?

Re: Bolt has a cool web interface and they really don't want you to use it

#40

Post by manigandham »

addicted wrote: post #31
mojuba wrote: post #9

There's an (unverified) myth that retention on mobile apps is better. This is one of those things that marketing people keep telling each other without ever verifying the facts. (Unless you deliberately make the web version inferior, of course.) The reasoning behind it is that you should take real estate on the user's home screen at all costs, because your app's icon will serve as a reminder and people will allegedly…

My Reddit usage has basically plummeted to 0 at this point because of their pushing me towards an app. I think there are provable cases where an app almost certainly leads to less retention than more and something like Reddit, whose value lies in allowing you to explore the internet is almost certainly one of them.

Reddit optimizes for user attention to sell ads. The mobile app is better at delivering that attention across the user base, even if a few users don't like it. Same thing with Quora and many others.
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