Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

fastcompany.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 330 posts

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#221

Post by sumedh »

the_af wrote: post #208
psaux wrote: post #152

There is a lot to digest in this piece. Work environments are very dynamic and context and time-in-point is very important. I did not see this behavior, but I was not part of that group at Apple. I worked with Jony after we were acquired. The original Siri linen background was his idea, the bubbles had to be perfect, the padding, the text size, the lists goes on. I inferred this as design obsession and did not find i…

> “not all ideas make the cut, even the best ones” I'm not sure I understand. If the best ideas don't make the cut, which ones do? Or was Jony acknowledging a flaw in Apple's process?

> If the best ideas don't make the cut, which ones do?

The best idea might be too expensive for the market so you go with the next best one?

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#222

Post by snambi »

the_af wrote: post #208
psaux wrote: post #152

There is a lot to digest in this piece. Work environments are very dynamic and context and time-in-point is very important. I did not see this behavior, but I was not part of that group at Apple. I worked with Jony after we were acquired. The original Siri linen background was his idea, the bubbles had to be perfect, the padding, the text size, the lists goes on. I inferred this as design obsession and did not find i…

> “not all ideas make the cut, even the best ones” I'm not sure I understand. If the best ideas don't make the cut, which ones do? Or was Jony acknowledging a flaw in Apple's process?

It could mean there are more than one.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#223

Post by bruce511 »

peterkelly wrote: post #198
protastus wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone in a leadership position has a responsibility to measure their words carefully, especially in a farewell email. "Sadly, rivers dry out, and when they do, you look for a new one." broadcasts extreme negativity to the people who remain. It almost reads like a cautionary warning followed by advice. One can write a heartfelt goodbye without ambiguity. Assuming the ambiguity was unintentional, the author was carele…

I think honesty is a better approach. A team or an organisation that cannot look at itself critically and recognise its problems is unable to remedy them. When people are afraid to speak about problems, those problems are more likely to remain. That's not a healthy culture.

Your point is valid, but in my experience it can be hard to get concensus on what the problems are, much less what the solutions are. And I work in a tiny company - I can't imagine what it's like for Apple.

Part of the problem is that everyone sees everything from their point of view, and not always from a holistic point of view.

Someone working on homepod sees the potential there and gets frustrated that its not equivalent to an iPhone or ipad. Someone else, in the siri division has his own list of priorities and demands (perhaps from the iPhone team).

Management isn't trying to fix every problem, or make everyone happy, they're trying to triage as best they can.

In my personal context we get all kinds of feedback from employees, but ultimately we have more ideas, and suggestions, than money. For some problems everyone has a proposed solution, half of which conflict with the other half. Sometimes suggestions fix some of a problem, but are short term, we may be holding out for a long term approach.

I guarantee that wherever you work you won't be happy with all decisions and directions - and I'm sure that includes people making those decisions and directions.

I've had people leave. Some on good terms, some on bad. Some are positive on the way out, but we stomp on negative. There's a place for negative feedback, and that's up the pipeline (where we always take it seriously) but whining to co-workers who have no authority to effect change, especially after resigning, is not a good look, and is not constructive.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#224

Post by Nathanba »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #49
ballenf wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't buy that the river metaphor wasn't about Apple. It just doesn't make sense unless he was retiring or leaving design entirely. Otherwise the lack of water is clearly related to Apple. If it really was solely about himself it's a really poor metaphor. So the river is moving to a new mountain? And the river's lack of water has nothing to do with the current one? Or, the mountain (Apple) has plenty of water…

Well, it’s not his own poetry - it’s some Persian classic he’s quoting so you could probably look into it and find a whole well-spring of deep knowledge explaining exactly what he meant by it. In the letter he talks about his own soul, and the experience of deep work being like that of a river. So it’s pretty clear he’s talking about what’s on his interior spiritually. From a designer “I am barren and in a creative r…

If the team was truly so tight knit then you wouldn't need to write an email to convey that you are leaving. I'm personally always flabbergasted by people who write company wide farewell messages. It's a net negative for the company to hear about people leaving. It doesn't matter what the reason for leaving is except if it's that the person won the lottery. Any other reason: Why not stay here? What's so unsustainable about working here?

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#225

Post by ksec »

the_af wrote: post #208
psaux wrote: post #152

There is a lot to digest in this piece. Work environments are very dynamic and context and time-in-point is very important. I did not see this behavior, but I was not part of that group at Apple. I worked with Jony after we were acquired. The original Siri linen background was his idea, the bubbles had to be perfect, the padding, the text size, the lists goes on. I inferred this as design obsession and did not find i…

> “not all ideas make the cut, even the best ones” I'm not sure I understand. If the best ideas don't make the cut, which ones do? Or was Jony acknowledging a flaw in Apple's process?

>“People think focus means saying yes to the thing you've got to focus on. But that's not what it means at all. It means saying no to the hundred other good ideas that there are. You have to pick carefully.

-Steve Jobs.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#226

Post by kergonath »

the_af wrote: post #208
psaux wrote: post #152

There is a lot to digest in this piece. Work environments are very dynamic and context and time-in-point is very important. I did not see this behavior, but I was not part of that group at Apple. I worked with Jony after we were acquired. The original Siri linen background was his idea, the bubbles had to be perfect, the padding, the text size, the lists goes on. I inferred this as design obsession and did not find i…

> “not all ideas make the cut, even the best ones” I'm not sure I understand. If the best ideas don't make the cut, which ones do? Or was Jony acknowledging a flaw in Apple's process?

Not all the best ones do, it is quite straightforward. Some bad ones also do occasionally make the cut, but it tells more about the nature of ideas than Apple’s process at this point.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#227

Post by franga2000 »

ballenf wrote: post #24
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #9

That bit about the firing of the designer who used the river metaphor in that email is such a good lesson for anyone: Never ever ever ever announce moves like this if there is still money on the table that can still be taken away from you. No matter how awesome your company is, how great the team, product or how wonderful the atmosphere is. This guy thought he wrote a heartfelt goodbye to his beloved team and was ins…

I just don't buy that the river metaphor wasn't about Apple. It just doesn't make sense unless he was retiring or leaving design entirely. Otherwise the lack of water is clearly related to Apple. If it really was solely about himself it's a really poor metaphor. So the river is moving to a new mountain? And the river's lack of water has nothing to do with the current one? Or, the mountain (Apple) has plenty of water…

I read it as there not being anything else at Apple left to inspire him, which is a reflection on his story at Apple, not Apple itself. If you work at one place for well over a decade, it makes sense to me that you would eventually run out of things you want to do there and have to move on.

But regardless of the interpretation, firing the dude was completely unacceptable.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#228

Post by ksec »

deergomoo wrote: post #163

Putting software design under the hardware design folks after Forstall was outed was and remains disastrous IMO. Dye and his team continue to make beautiful hardware but fuck me hiding every function of a program behind a hover state or overflow menu absolutely kills usability. Productivity is being sacrificed for some weird notion of “cleanliness”. We’re all running displays with millions of pixels, we can afford bu…

This, and iOS7. I know I am in the extreme minority but I do miss Forstall. I just dont like Craig Federighi much.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#229

Post by 5350-uiop-1130 »

the_af wrote: post #208
psaux wrote: post #152

There is a lot to digest in this piece. Work environments are very dynamic and context and time-in-point is very important. I did not see this behavior, but I was not part of that group at Apple. I worked with Jony after we were acquired. The original Siri linen background was his idea, the bubbles had to be perfect, the padding, the text size, the lists goes on. I inferred this as design obsession and did not find i…

> “not all ideas make the cut, even the best ones” I'm not sure I understand. If the best ideas don't make the cut, which ones do? Or was Jony acknowledging a flaw in Apple's process?

Yeah like having a standard USB port on a laptop in 2020. At least they fixed it now.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#230

Post by Aeolun »

protastus wrote: post #50
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #9

That bit about the firing of the designer who used the river metaphor in that email is such a good lesson for anyone: Never ever ever ever announce moves like this if there is still money on the table that can still be taken away from you. No matter how awesome your company is, how great the team, product or how wonderful the atmosphere is. This guy thought he wrote a heartfelt goodbye to his beloved team and was ins…

Anyone in a leadership position has a responsibility to measure their words carefully, especially in a farewell email. "Sadly, rivers dry out, and when they do, you look for a new one." broadcasts extreme negativity to the people who remain. It almost reads like a cautionary warning followed by advice. One can write a heartfelt goodbye without ambiguity. Assuming the ambiguity was unintentional, the author was carele…

I really don’t know how you can signal more negativity about the outlook of either company or position than by leaving.
Post reply on HN