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The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

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Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#211
post #208
post #152

There is a lot to digest in this piece. Work environments are very dynamic and context and time-in-point is very important. I did not see this behavior, but I was not part of that group at Apple. I worked with Jony after we were acquired. The original Siri linen background was his idea, the bubbles had to be perfect, the padding, the text size, the lists goes on. I inferred this as design obsession and did not find i…

> “not all ideas make the cut, even the best ones” I'm not sure I understand. If the best ideas don't make the cut, which ones do? Or was Jony acknowledging a flaw in Apple's process?

I read it as “even (some of) the best ones” based on the “not all ideas” start.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#212
post #24

That bit about the firing of the designer who used the river metaphor in that email is such a good lesson for anyone: Never ever ever ever announce moves like this if there is still money on the table that can still be taken away from you. No matter how awesome your company is, how great the team, product or how wonderful the atmosphere is. This guy thought he wrote a heartfelt goodbye to his beloved team and was ins…

I just don't buy that the river metaphor wasn't about Apple. It just doesn't make sense unless he was retiring or leaving design entirely. Otherwise the lack of water is clearly related to Apple. If it really was solely about himself it's a really poor metaphor. So the river is moving to a new mountain? And the river's lack of water has nothing to do with the current one? Or, the mountain (Apple) has plenty of water…

"The non-critical-of-Apple reading is convoluted and tortured, imo."

Perhaps you are also reading things with a certain context - "poor", "convoluted", "tortured", "lack", "can't" - all negative words used in this comment. People often see things through lenses, - if management is negative, thin skinned, looking at a statement like that as anything but an indictment of the company would be wondrous.

As others pointed out, the context of the letter speaks very differently. Whether it is "Apples" river or the river of inspiration of the employee, is hardly worth arguing over, inspiration comes from without and is experienced by the employee, there is nothing innately inspiration about a company, ever, only about its employees...who make up said company.

I suppose you might want to argue that employees can inspire other employees - perhaps, but only to the limited degree which some employees have different experiences than others. As a senior employee, you are somewhat expected to be that source of inspiration, saying rivers dry up, e.g. yours, is not saying that Apple the company, can never be a place employees will experience inspiration, just that you aren't experiencing it anymore, and that's perfectly fine.

What's also perfectly fine is that management reacted this, way, which, ironically, foreshadows the absolutely lack-luster dumpster fire which was Apple in the past decade. It illustrates perhaps why there was not inspiration, because leadership failed to provide it.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#213
post #211
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “not all ideas make the cut, even the best ones” I'm not sure I understand. If the best ideas don't make the cut, which ones do? Or was Jony acknowledging a flaw in Apple's process?

I read it as “even (some of) the best ones” based on the “not all ideas” start.

Could also be speaking with hindsight

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#214
post #208
post #152

There is a lot to digest in this piece. Work environments are very dynamic and context and time-in-point is very important. I did not see this behavior, but I was not part of that group at Apple. I worked with Jony after we were acquired. The original Siri linen background was his idea, the bubbles had to be perfect, the padding, the text size, the lists goes on. I inferred this as design obsession and did not find i…

> “not all ideas make the cut, even the best ones” I'm not sure I understand. If the best ideas don't make the cut, which ones do? Or was Jony acknowledging a flaw in Apple's process?

Carful to remember the “some of”… but the best ideas might be too risky, not as practical, timed poorly, too controversial, etc.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#215
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artists are a petty and vindictive culture, since value is subjective and there's no profit for being pretty good but not the annointed winner.

Vindictive? Artists? BS. You're clearly extrapolating on an unfounded assumption. I'm an adult art student getting a BFA as part of a career change and have known hundreds of artists and designers over the years. Firstly, there is no unifying culture among even large subsets of artists, let alone artists in general. Secondly, claiming that artists in general are vindictive is flat-out absurd.

At a certain type of design-centric company the culture shifts, and divas are both created and elevated to a degree that you don't see elsewhere. Most companies don't tolerate that sort of artist/designer because they're obnoxious and generally horrible people (and they don't work well with others so unless the culture is one that prioritizes them over everyone else they tend to flail and fail pretty quickly) but here and there you'll find pockets where they thrive.

I think you're absolutely right that in general artists are not like that. It's a few bad apples, and for the most part they don't ever have much opportunity to do damage because it takes an exceptionally weird company to enable them.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely to be the corporate setting than the designers. I had no idea the originator of the Bondi Blue iMac was Danny Coster. I'd always assumed it wss Ive. Interesting he managed to take all of the credit for it.

From the media you’d think he and Steve Jobs were the only two employees and responsible for 100% of any success. It’s much easier to personify a monolith under a specific individual. Tesla is only Musk. Gas prices and inflation are only because of Biden. The list goes on.

I think you really captured the somewhat unspoken reality of it.. When you are a leader, things that go right are credited to you (Jobs, Musk) but when things go wrong, you get the blame (Biden).

Of course the world is more nuanced than that but the power of narrative combined with the romance of “leadership” and you end up playing a high-risk, high-reward game

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#217
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he understood perfectly that computers were tools. The PowerBook/MacBook Pro designs up through 2016, the MacBook Air from 2010 onwards, the Power Macs G3-G5/Macs Pro through 2013 and the 2019 Mac Pro, the iBook/MacBook line through 2011, and the entirety of the iMac’s history all reflect a recognition that computers are fundamentally tools. They just held the conceit that tools can also be beautiful. But yes…

IDK. Doggedly sticking to a single button mouse. Putting charging port on the bottom of a mouse because designers know best. Calculators that produce wrong answers if one types before the beautiful animations finish. Keyboards so thin and heavily integrated dust can break them, and cannot be repaired without accessing main board. Evidence suggests to me that Apple's record on utility is mixed.

I personally like the single button mouse. It is the only mouse I got so far that on MacOS let me scroll webpages up and down, left and right without any effort.

I really like that the almost the whole surface is active and have gestures.

I agree that for video games not having dedicated buttons is not ok. I dont play those so for me this is the perfect mouse.

Being using them from the first generation I think 2010-2011 and it is hard for me to go back to normal mouse.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vindictive? Artists? BS. You're clearly extrapolating on an unfounded assumption. I'm an adult art student getting a BFA as part of a career change and have known hundreds of artists and designers over the years. Firstly, there is no unifying culture among even large subsets of artists, let alone artists in general. Secondly, claiming that artists in general are vindictive is flat-out absurd.

At a certain type of design-centric company the culture shifts, and divas are both created and elevated to a degree that you don't see elsewhere. Most companies don't tolerate that sort of artist/designer because they're obnoxious and generally horrible people (and they don't work well with others so unless the culture is one that prioritizes them over everyone else they tend to flail and fail pretty quickly) but her…

Well aware of the conspicuous minority that comprise that (stereo)type, but you can levy similar charges against any knowledge job from engineering to academia to the priesthood and I highly doubt those sorts of people are more highly represented in art than most other professions.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#219

I really loved the design of the Touch Bar/Butterfly keyboard visually. It would have been great if: - They kept the butterfly but completely solved the failure problem. - Supported Touch Bar with actual haptic feedback that could really be used "professionally" as in a Pro device. It could at best become a gimmick, but if played right, had great potential. - Had a simplified thin chassis with less ports. I really do…

> I really don't wanna pay for an HDMI port, SD reader, and a headphone jack tha You don't want to pay for $20 worth of components? Like what another comment stated, you're getting components that have been tested by Apple and will have documented specifications.

Forgot to add: also about aesthetics. I'm a minimalist guy who loved simplicity (hence loved Ive'd designs). Less ports and possible slightly thinner chassis as a result of it is something I'd have preferred even if there was no price difference.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#220

I really loved the design of the Touch Bar/Butterfly keyboard visually. It would have been great if: - They kept the butterfly but completely solved the failure problem. - Supported Touch Bar with actual haptic feedback that could really be used "professionally" as in a Pro device. It could at best become a gimmick, but if played right, had great potential. - Had a simplified thin chassis with less ports. I really do…

I used the old Touch Bar in my profession daily - used it for debugging command shortcuts.

I used it too especially in Vscode to move forward/back in views of code locations when debugging/coding.

That was the first thing I missed, along with the custom controls for DND/Focus which was one tap away on Touch Bar.

Though it was a lot of hit or miss to use Touch Bar while looking at the screen, as there wasn't a physical feedback of pressing, and no indication of button bounds by touching.

The first thing I did when I got on M1 without Touch Bar was to open up Karabiner and map right Cmd and right Option keys to navigating back and forward in Vscode. After getting used to it in a few days, it was much smoother than using the Touch Bar as I was using a physical key.

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