Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

fastcompany.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 330 posts

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#201

Post by socialdemocrat »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #9

That bit about the firing of the designer who used the river metaphor in that email is such a good lesson for anyone: Never ever ever ever announce moves like this if there is still money on the table that can still be taken away from you. No matter how awesome your company is, how great the team, product or how wonderful the atmosphere is. This guy thought he wrote a heartfelt goodbye to his beloved team and was ins…

This and what Elon Musk did keep getting me struck by how little protection workers in the US have. Fired on a whim. But so do remember when working at American companies all the horror stories we heard about how our colleagues working in America got treated.

It became these “did you hear the latest crazy thing they did in the US office?”

I am not saying this to dump on America but hopefully to get people to demand better. If this is how people want their work life that is fine, but I hope people realize it doesn’t have to be like this.

What is actually pretty bad corporate culture has been normalized IMHO.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#202

Post by socialdemocrat »

protastus wrote: post #50
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #9

That bit about the firing of the designer who used the river metaphor in that email is such a good lesson for anyone: Never ever ever ever announce moves like this if there is still money on the table that can still be taken away from you. No matter how awesome your company is, how great the team, product or how wonderful the atmosphere is. This guy thought he wrote a heartfelt goodbye to his beloved team and was ins…

Anyone in a leadership position has a responsibility to measure their words carefully, especially in a farewell email. "Sadly, rivers dry out, and when they do, you look for a new one." broadcasts extreme negativity to the people who remain. It almost reads like a cautionary warning followed by advice. One can write a heartfelt goodbye without ambiguity. Assuming the ambiguity was unintentional, the author was carele…

Sounds like you demand that people walk on eggshells around some thin skinned psychopath. It is human to make some mistakes or miscommunicate. The normal thing would be to have a talk and clear things up. Management must react when an employee keeps screwing up despite feedback. Here was a one strike rule. Even the California prison system is more easy going than that ;-)

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#203

Post by socialdemocrat »

ballenf wrote: post #24
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #9

That bit about the firing of the designer who used the river metaphor in that email is such a good lesson for anyone: Never ever ever ever announce moves like this if there is still money on the table that can still be taken away from you. No matter how awesome your company is, how great the team, product or how wonderful the atmosphere is. This guy thought he wrote a heartfelt goodbye to his beloved team and was ins…

I just don't buy that the river metaphor wasn't about Apple. It just doesn't make sense unless he was retiring or leaving design entirely. Otherwise the lack of water is clearly related to Apple. If it really was solely about himself it's a really poor metaphor. So the river is moving to a new mountain? And the river's lack of water has nothing to do with the current one? Or, the mountain (Apple) has plenty of water…

It looked like a a description of personal journey to me immediately. It makes no sense for a person to say such a thing about the company. To simple assume that I find a bit sad. Like to people really think so low of their fellow man?

I think our society has gotten to much cynicism. Maybe we need more nativity, compassion and empathy.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#204

Post by socialdemocrat »

preseinger wrote: post #140
ballenf wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't buy that the river metaphor wasn't about Apple. It just doesn't make sense unless he was retiring or leaving design entirely. Otherwise the lack of water is clearly related to Apple. If it really was solely about himself it's a really poor metaphor. So the river is moving to a new mountain? And the river's lack of water has nothing to do with the current one? Or, the mountain (Apple) has plenty of water…

It reads to me as obviously about the author, and the critical-of-Apple reading the convoluted and tortured version, only making sense if your model of humans is fundamentally... I dunno, manipulative, or Machiavellian. (shrug)

Well put, my thoughts as well. It just makes me sad on behalf of humanity that we turn out having such bleak and cynical perspective on other people. Benefit of the doubt? Guilty until proven otherwise? Are such ideals just unfashionable today or something?

People should put more faith in each other. Look for the positive instead of just the flaws and shortcomings.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#205

Post by derefr »

jiggawatts wrote: post #153
stephc_int13 wrote: post #105

In my opinion, the work Ive did at Apple is greatly over rated. Yes it is clean and minimalist, and some devices like the iPhone 4 were truly innovative, bold and impressive designs. But overall, this is mostly bland, generic, boring. In the same minimalist style, I prefer the work of Dieter Rams. Some Sony products have really good design, including devices that were released a few years before the iPhone, but that…

Citing IBM as good at design makes this read like a parody. Everything IBM does is so hilariously ugly in the least imaginative, boring, industrial way that they’ve gone through “boxy” into some other universe where it’s almost — but not quite — good style. For crying out loud, everything they make is black . There are famous Apple ads deriding the bland corporate look of IBM!

> Everything IBM does is so hilariously ugly in the least imaginative, boring, industrial way

Their mainframes and HPC clusters have a sort of "intentional brutalism", almost skewing into a "dystopian, corpocratic sci-fi evil-idol the protagonist blows up at the end of the movie" look, that's actually kind of appealing/fitting for what those clusters are/do. It's the "Hugo Boss SS uniform" of computing.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#206

Post by likeclockwork »

jiggawatts wrote: post #153
stephc_int13 wrote: post #105

In my opinion, the work Ive did at Apple is greatly over rated. Yes it is clean and minimalist, and some devices like the iPhone 4 were truly innovative, bold and impressive designs. But overall, this is mostly bland, generic, boring. In the same minimalist style, I prefer the work of Dieter Rams. Some Sony products have really good design, including devices that were released a few years before the iPhone, but that…

Citing IBM as good at design makes this read like a parody. Everything IBM does is so hilariously ugly in the least imaginative, boring, industrial way that they’ve gone through “boxy” into some other universe where it’s almost — but not quite — good style. For crying out loud, everything they make is black . There are famous Apple ads deriding the bland corporate look of IBM!

Black is the appropriate color for electronics.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#207

Post by azinman2 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #139
illwrks wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took it to mean artists/designers in a corporate setting where it's a bit more cutthroat.

More likely to be the corporate setting than the designers. I had no idea the originator of the Bondi Blue iMac was Danny Coster. I'd always assumed it wss Ive. Interesting he managed to take all of the credit for it.

From the media you’d think he and Steve Jobs were the only two employees and responsible for 100% of any success.

It’s much easier to personify a monolith under a specific individual. Tesla is only Musk. Gas prices and inflation are only because of Biden. The list goes on.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#208

Post by the_af »

psaux wrote: post #152

There is a lot to digest in this piece. Work environments are very dynamic and context and time-in-point is very important. I did not see this behavior, but I was not part of that group at Apple. I worked with Jony after we were acquired. The original Siri linen background was his idea, the bubbles had to be perfect, the padding, the text size, the lists goes on. I inferred this as design obsession and did not find i…

> “not all ideas make the cut, even the best ones”

I'm not sure I understand. If the best ideas don't make the cut, which ones do? Or was Jony acknowledging a flaw in Apple's process?

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#209

Post by korginator »

People can (and often will) be vindictive, specially people with the power over you and your career. Call me cynical, but in my few decades of work life I've come across more than a few such people. Say what you will about how you wish leaders would behave, but reality is different.

I've seen ego- and power-tripping at all levels, even in situations where the people playing these games had nothing to gain or lose from torpedoing the other.

Imran Chaudhri would have been best served by keeping all written communications strictly minimal and work related. Something along the lines of "I'm leaving in a months' time for other opportunities. It was a pleasure working here, thank you for your support, wishing you all the best." Nothing would have been misinterpreted.

Keep any and all sentiments out of work related communication.

Re: The dissolution of Apple’s legacy design team

#210

Post by refurb »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #201
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #9

That bit about the firing of the designer who used the river metaphor in that email is such a good lesson for anyone: Never ever ever ever announce moves like this if there is still money on the table that can still be taken away from you. No matter how awesome your company is, how great the team, product or how wonderful the atmosphere is. This guy thought he wrote a heartfelt goodbye to his beloved team and was ins…

This and what Elon Musk did keep getting me struck by how little protection workers in the US have. Fired on a whim. But so do remember when working at American companies all the horror stories we heard about how our colleagues working in America got treated. It became these “did you hear the latest crazy thing they did in the US office?” I am not saying this to dump on America but hopefully to get people to demand b…

If you publicly trash your company (externally or just broadly internally) in other countries you’re saying you won’t be fired? Or face some discipline?

That hasn’t been my experience at all.

Post reply on HN