Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

thoughts.jatan.space

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 351 posts

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#181

Post by rglullis »

janosdebugs wrote: post #168
rglullis wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am talking from the perspective of the merchant . Imagine bogus chargebacks because of buyer's remorse or purchases done with stolen credit cards. None of this happens for a merchant that accepts crypto.

Just because crypto doesn't offer chargebacks doesn't mean that the customer is not legally entitled to a refund. Depending on the jurisdiction of the merchant and the customer there are a number of scenarios where the merchant is legally obliged to providing a refund. For example, in Germany when a minor makes the purchase, the transaction may be invalid and the merchant has to refund the money.

If a refund is legitimate, the merchant can go on to void the purchase and initiate a refund.

The point is not to have a system of final purchases, but final payments.

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#182

Post by deanCommie »

tpurves wrote: post #105

What many people don't realize is that the operational and customer service costs of payments don't scale with payment amount. Customers will cost almost just as frequently dispute, have questions, have problems, ask for help, attempt to defraud etc with a $1 transaction as they will a $100 or $1000 transaction. This is the real killer with micro payment schemes. Customer service costs scale more with number of payme…

Patreon is also more than a payment processor.

OP even calls this out - they like having different membership tiers. They're a content host for exclusive images. (Videos do tend to be offsite as unlisted Youtube videos)

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#183

Post by rglullis »

lalopalota wrote: post #169
rglullis wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum is moving to PoS in less than two months. Can we please drop this BS excuse of an argument? (Before you reply with the usual "Ethereum devs have been promising PoS for years" line, I will tell you this: I pledge to drop all work on Hub20 if Ethereum doesn't complete the transition by the end of the year.)

How is this a "BS excuse of an argument"? Is proof of work being used?? Hmmm, yes it is. Thus, the argument stands.

> Is proof of work being used?

Not for all blockchains. If that is the point of contention in regards to crypto, then just look at the many other blockchains that do not use PoW.

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#184

Post by bryanlarsen »

rglullis wrote: post #179
omegalulw wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And these systems exist because sellers do fraud too, merchants that don't ship after taking payment, etc. With irreversible payments through crypto you are just pushing all the risk on customers. That will never fly.

If the customer does not trust the merchant, they simply don't make the payment with crypto . Why, oh why is it so hard to understand the concept of multiple alternatives ?

Every retailer with a median transaction size under $20 hates credit cards. Yet with rare exception they all take cards.

The customer chooses the mechanism, not the merchant. To best credit cards you'll have to be more customer friendly.

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#185

Post by viraptor »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #41
colechristensen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks take care of an enormous amount of small transactions on credit and debit cards and only charge ~3%, some European countries have fees as low as 0.3%. The high fees of patreon have nothing to do with payment support issues.

In India, the cost of instant payments is exactly zero. Additionally, RuPay cards have a Zero MDR which has really really made Visa and MasterCard angry

So what do you pay with? Your transaction data? Subscription to other services?

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#186

Post by ketzo »

cowtools wrote: post #126
mertd wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Patreon's reason to exist is because "sending money p2p is hard". There is a lot of room for competition though. As a supporter, my loyalty is to the creator not to the platform.

>I don't think Patreon's reason to exist is because "sending money p2p is hard". Why do you think that? Sending money p2p is hard in a world where cryptocurrency is treated like an investment vehicle and not a payment system. >There is a lot of room for competition though. As a supporter, my loyalty is to the creator not to the platform. You don't clearly speak on behalf of most users here. "Using multiple platforms"…

This argument totally belies the massive uptick in P2P payment usage on Venmo, CashApp, Zelle, etc

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#187

Post by rglullis »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #184
rglullis wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the customer does not trust the merchant, they simply don't make the payment with crypto . Why, oh why is it so hard to understand the concept of multiple alternatives ?

Every retailer with a median transaction size under $20 hates credit cards. Yet with rare exception they all take cards. The customer chooses the mechanism, not the merchant. To best credit cards you'll have to be more customer friendly.

Come to Berlin and marvel at how many cash-only shops we have.

And if you are talking about internet retailers, can we make an exercise to think of how many new businesses would be viable if transactions of 20 cents were a thing?

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#189

Post by gingerlime »

rglullis wrote: post #158
MattRix wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t using crypto lead to more fraud, not less?

I am talking from the perspective of the merchant . Imagine bogus chargebacks because of buyer's remorse or purchases done with stolen credit cards. None of this happens for a merchant that accepts crypto.

Or 3DSecure which is becoming very common in Europe. No chargebacks.

Re: Patreon cuts deep inside creators’ pockets

#190

Post by karpierz »

rglullis wrote: post #170
1270018080 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto doesn't reduce the methods for fraud.

How can a customer use a stolen credit card to make payments with crypto? And how does a customer initiate a bogus chargeback on the blockchain?

If credentials are stolen, crypto or otherwise, a scammer can then use those stolen credentials to make a payment.

All non-reversible transactions do is put the risk of fraud on the consumer. IE, if you buy anything with crypto and it turns out to be defective, or just not arrive, you have no recourse. You're just out the money.

Post reply on HN