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Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

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Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#291

Post by Dylan16807 »

upsidesinclude wrote: post #78
mandmandam wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am downvoting because the comment acts as if it's a mystery where all the wealth gains in productivity have gone. It is NOT a fucking mystery, and I'm outraged that so, so many people are or act oblivious to the obscenely obvious cause. (Since it's not actually obvious to everyone, thanks to shit education and propaganda, the uber-wealthy have hoovered up the gains in productivity and kept it to themselves.) It's v…

And no one cares about your diatribe or outrage. The point is that there is always an elite or wealthy class, pick which group you like best. Always, for all time this is what happens in society. Don't care about your one example of some communist paradise that was great.

The problem isn't that wealthy people exist, the problem is what percentage they get. It makes a big difference whether the top 1% own 10% of the wealth or 50% of the wealth, for example.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#292

Post by actually_a_dog »

olalonde wrote: post #288
actually_a_dog wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free society? What kind of "free society" is it when people can't afford basics like housing, healthcare, and education? The median US individual income is currently about $36k. People at the median are either not making it or just barely making it. How is that "free?" MIT has calculated that the living wage in the US is just over $24/hour which is $48k per year. The median is about 1/3 short of that. That's what you…

Free as in freedom, not as in free beer.

What freedom? Freedom implies the ability to do things. You can't do that if you can't afford to live. Keep in mind MIT's living wage calculation doesn't include things like savings and any sort of entertainment. What kind of life is that?

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#293

Post by mquander »

actually_a_dog wrote: post #274
olalonde wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because our free society is based on the fundamental assumption that grown-up adults are generally responsible and act in their own best interest. Throwing out those assumptions is very dangerous and brings us closer to authoritarianism and tyranny.

Free society? What kind of "free society" is it when people can't afford basics like housing, healthcare, and education? The median US individual income is currently about $36k. People at the median are either not making it or just barely making it. How is that "free?" MIT has calculated that the living wage in the US is just over $24/hour which is $48k per year. The median is about 1/3 short of that. That's what you…

That living wage is for a family of four, not an individual.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#294

Post by neuralRiot »

rakejake wrote: post #219
quartesixte wrote: post #195

Compared to my parents and grandparents generation, my life is filled with leisure. Basic everyday necessities took up so much of my grandparent’s time when they were younger. A meal would take hours to prep. All the veggies to prep said meal grown. And then the many hours spent cleaning, maintaining, and improving the living space. Social obligations. They basically just worked all day long to just live. Leisure wer…

The problem is the absence of leisure during leisure time rather than loss of leisure time. True, there is more time today for hobbies and other such activities than there was previously, and less responsibilities. But the increase in the pace of life sort of compensates for this. I technically waste a lot of time on the internet that could be better served listening to classical music or reading a novel. Yet, I find…

Does that makes us happier? I believe that’s what matters in the end and having more spare time not always equate to more happiness, surprisingly, if you look at statistics the more developed countries report lower happiness scores. Happiness is a trip, not a destination.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#295

Post by [deleted] »

mquander wrote: post #293
actually_a_dog wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free society? What kind of "free society" is it when people can't afford basics like housing, healthcare, and education? The median US individual income is currently about $36k. People at the median are either not making it or just barely making it. How is that "free?" MIT has calculated that the living wage in the US is just over $24/hour which is $48k per year. The median is about 1/3 short of that. That's what you…

That living wage is for a family of four, not an individual.

[deleted]

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#296

Post by colinmhayes »

hourago wrote: post #284
quartesixte wrote: post #195

Compared to my parents and grandparents generation, my life is filled with leisure. Basic everyday necessities took up so much of my grandparent’s time when they were younger. A meal would take hours to prep. All the veggies to prep said meal grown. And then the many hours spent cleaning, maintaining, and improving the living space. Social obligations. They basically just worked all day long to just live. Leisure wer…

You are probably a well paid engineer or similar. Your experience is valid, but not the most common one.

I really don't think that's true. Everyone in the US has access to smartphones. They may not have large blocks of leisure time, but technology allows the average social media user to be scrolling for over two hours a day. You might not be able to live comfortably on 1 wage, but household responsibilities take much less time due to innovation. Obviously everything isn't rosy, but it's not really like we have less leisure time.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#297

Post by nverno »

hourago wrote: post #284
quartesixte wrote: post #195

Compared to my parents and grandparents generation, my life is filled with leisure. Basic everyday necessities took up so much of my grandparent’s time when they were younger. A meal would take hours to prep. All the veggies to prep said meal grown. And then the many hours spent cleaning, maintaining, and improving the living space. Social obligations. They basically just worked all day long to just live. Leisure wer…

You are probably a well paid engineer or similar. Your experience is valid, but not the most common one.

Definitely the most common one in the states. I'm broke, but all this is the same, minus eating at restaurants. You'd have to go to countries where modern appliances aren't ubiquitous for most of these time-savers not to exist.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#298

Post by olalonde »

azemetre wrote: post #271
olalonde wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you apply these same arguments to other moral hazards like pollution? No, it's not in the same category. Pollution is a cost that is imposed on an uninvolved third party. I do however apply the same argument to things like gambling, fast food, video games, traditional media, etc.

Why can't it be the same category? How many studies need to smack you in the face about social media causing increased levels of depression and anxiety in both teens and adults? Why should social media companies get zero scrutiny for a way of living that they hoisted into the world with zero thought for the repercussions? Why do individuals have to fix a multination corporation's fuck up rather than regulating these…

No one is forced to use Facebook. If you believe Facebook is causing harm to people you know, talk to them about it and try to persuade them that they are being harmed.

Personally, I've never felt Facebook was doing me more harm than good, or I would have stopped using it. I have a theory that underlying most calls for regulations is actually disbelief or disapproval in the choices other individuals freely make. The "victims" rarely seem to be the ones calling for the regulations.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#299

Post by colinmhayes »

watwut wrote: post #239
onesafari wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny seeing so many people who spend hours every day on social media or Netflix or Steam claim that they have no time. We can see the data on how many hours are being consumed. What explains that?

1.) The "it is the same people" thing is your guess, something you want to be true. It is not something born of facts. There are people who play games 30 hours a week ... and then there are people who never play them. And this is the most important point here. 2.) Specifically with Netflix, people watch Netflix while doing other things or when when they are already tired. I turn on tv or listen podcasts when cooking…

> people watch Netflix while doing other things or when when they are already tired. I turn on tv or listen podcasts when cooking or cleaning or am doing other boring activities

You don't think this counts as leisure time? Cooking while listening to music or a podcast is much more enjoyable than doing it in silence.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#300

Post by allenu »

tayo42 wrote: post #218
kubb wrote: post #48

I have several fantastic things that I love doing and work makes it very hard for me to pursue them. One of them is philosophy. There is a great deal of benefit and pleasure that a person can derive from learning about about and understanding the arguments that have been made across the centuries. Another is physical activity. It feels great to move your body, it makes you so much happier than sitting at a desk. Anot…

> One of them is philosophy. There is a great deal of benefit and pleasure that a person can derive from learning about about and understanding the arguments that have been made across the centuries. Do you just enjoy reading about it and that's it? Or how do you make philisophy interactive and interesting beyond satisfying curiousites? I got kind of into some sub topics of philosophy, but lost a lot of motivation on…

I can see how it can differ for everyone. For some people, there's value in just learning about new things and not necessarily "exercising" that skill in a community or making a dent in the culture. Think of it like learning to paint or make music, but not necessarily wanting to impacting the art world or becoming a performer.
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