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Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

bloomberg.com

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Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#191

Post by knorker »

datadata wrote: post #163
knorker wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin has value for the same reason Visa has value. No. Visa has contracts, offices, and cash. They have over $81B in assets, over $12B of which is cold hard cash.[1] Visa also has employees who know what they're doing. Bitcoin has cryptocurrency industry people working on its behalf. It's not the same thing. Bitcoin has people and companies invested in it (emotionally and financially). Visa has almost a hundred…

> Bitcoin has no assets. Cash just as well "has no assets". You can't just compare bitcoin to a corporation and get something that makes sense.

Two things:

> You can't just compare bitcoin to a corporation and get something that makes sense.

1) I agree. I was replying to a comment that did.

> Cash just as well "has no assets".

2) USD is backed, ultimately, by the full force of the nuclear armed state and multiple branches of the biggest military the world has ever seen. If you think the US government will allow USD to become irrelevant then you are going to be very disappointed. Bitcoin has no such thing.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#193

Post by effingwewt »

koonsolo wrote: post #171
sentirism wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GOOG had 22% revenue growth up to 68 billion dollars last quarter. Not being able to see the difference between GOOG and crypto pretty much sums up the sophistication of crypto investors.

The original comment is still valid: why is the drop in Bitcoin on the top page of HN, and the drop of GOOG not?

Probably because so many have been watching this closely. It's a very polarizing issue.

I hadn't realized google was falling hard, that's great news to me, and I wish it had been on the front page.

Could be google hiding from bad press here as they are wont to do.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#194

Post by datadata »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #188
datadata wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is irrelevant here. The argument that bitcoin is not inflationary is merely that it has a supply cap. USD has no supply cap but it obviously has lower price volatility. That said, it is the Fed's goal to purposefully reduce the purchasing power of USD by 2% every year, so the trajectory is clear.

Your point about fiat currency is also irrelevant here. Bitcoin has been inflationary in the real world in actual practice. At least over the timescales we're talking about. While fiat currency has been inflationary, Bitcoin has been even more so. And again back in reality, measures (interest rate increases) to counteract inflation in the fiat currency also make Bitcoin an unattractive "investment": "The higher [inte…

You are conflating price volatility with inflation. Stocks are also down in price this year for the same reason. Stocks are not inflationary either.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#195

Post by gizmo385 »

dubswithus wrote: post #141
somewhereoutth wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so pay in cash, not funny stock.

I guess GP likes it? I think plenty of hobbies, sports, and events are stupid. But there are whole industries built around them.

While that’s true, people don’t often get their paycheck in Funko Pops or LEGO.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#196

Post by synu »

robonerd wrote: post #190
synu wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of explaining a joke, the idea was not that it’s something that’s only ever been said before failure, but that it’s a quite funny thing to say just before one.

At the risk of explaining my objection; it's not about the joke but about the premise of history rhyming generally being an artifact of overzealous pattern matching and the implicit exclusion of cases that don't match the target pattern.

Your objection to the joke has been duly noted in the appropriate system of record. Beep boop.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#197

Post by datadata »

knorker wrote: post #191
datadata wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin has no assets. Cash just as well "has no assets". You can't just compare bitcoin to a corporation and get something that makes sense.

Two things: > You can't just compare bitcoin to a corporation and get something that makes sense. 1) I agree. I was replying to a comment that did. > Cash just as well "has no assets". 2) USD is backed, ultimately, by the full force of the nuclear armed state and multiple branches of the biggest military the world has ever seen. If you think the US government will allow USD to become irrelevant then you are going to…

No one said that USD is going anywhere. As you pointed out for bitcoin, the people who work on or invest in bitcoin are not part of the asset. This is the same for USD also. Visa equity is the most different amongst the three.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#198

Post by majani »

bsaul wrote: post #78

i wouldn't be surprised if eth survives but btc don't. Ethereum has actually built something on top of its coin, thanks to smart contract. To my knowledge, BTC is pure speculation.

Actually the presence of an active, neurodivergent figurehead for eth is a more existential risk than anything on btc's end.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#199

Post by kgwgk »

rvz wrote: post #85
silisili wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's hoping. When stocks tank, one can decide if a company is undervalued and decide whether to buy in. Bitcoin has no value other than speculation, so it's a hard ask for people to buy in as it's never technically undervalued...

> Here's hoping. When stocks tank, one can decide if a company is undervalued and decide whether to buy in. Even those stocks that underwent the SPAC route that also offer no dividends and are beyond loss making to the point at which they will be delisted? I don't see how SPACs that aren't making any money like $BZFD or $NKLA are any better than Bitcoin. Let's hope these shady SPACs don't start repeating the ills of…

The quote you reply to doesn't say: "When stocks tank, one can buy in."

It says: "When stocks tank, one can decide if a company is undervalued and decide whether to buy in."

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#200

Post by bb88 »

datadata wrote: post #176
bb88 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin has value for the same reason Visa has value. No. Bitcoin has utility. Screws have utility also, they just don't have very much value.

Visa has value (on top of it's utility) because it is able to take a 1-3% cut of all payments that use the visa network. Suppose bitcoin gave the equivalent utility as visa but for negligible fees. In this world, you would have the same utility for a lower cost, and the equity value of Visa would conceivably go to zero. My point is that converting utility to value depends on the ability to monetize something. If ther…

A stock of Visa has value but little utility. A Visa credit card maybe has value on the black market.

But the card itself has no value other than said black market. It has loads of utility though.

Maybe you can use it to scrape off the ice on your car windows in a cold winter day... so that would be maybe a nickel?

Further I can call citibank to get a free replacement visa card. So the value of the credit card seems to be close to zero.

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