> Once upon a time, it was taken for granted that the wealthier classes enjoyed a life of leisure on the backs of the proletariat They still do. They always did. It’s just so that now you are the proletariat.
[deleted]
Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)
161–170 of 381 posts
Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)
#162As a few other commenters pointed out, the perspective of many on the idea of leisure time is that it will lead to one’s destruction. This is an incredibly damaging and blind perspective on the struggles of the working class. There is no leisure time when you work a poor paying physically and emotionally demanding job and spend the other hours of the day preparing for said job (house work, eating, commuting). Work wi…
[deleted]
Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)
#163Every generation looks at technological progress and predicts the obvious conclusion, that people will have more leisure time. It’s easy to see that what you are doing now will be easier and quicker. They don’t see the new things that people will be doing, new social structures to adapt and compete in, new information to process, and especially the cognitive burden of managing risk in so many new choices.
The simplest example that we can relate to may be email. Before email, writing letters was awful. You got out a nice pen and paper and whiteout, and carefully wrote in your best penmanship a few pages to your grandmother thanking her for a nice new pair of socks. You did this twice a year. Now we have email, and the whole family sends low-effort messages and photos every day. Nobody would have guessed that this was any sort of need, but you do need to do it because family inclusion and affection is now competitive and that is a basic need.
Almost nothing we are spending our time on right now would be considered a need even 50 years ago, but most of it is spent trying to satisfy a need that was easy for them. Much of that is spent “working”, which is mostly now just wasted time and miserable interactions under artificial stress and unending hours. That makes people feel awful, and ruins any leisure time they might have had.
Any by the way, some people here are saying that rich people have leisure on the backs of the working class. Just look at their families. They’re not healthy, nor happy. They are scared to death in every moment of losing everything, and they can’t trust anybody. Don’t envy them. It may look like leisure but it doesn’t feel like it.
Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)
#164> Once upon a time, it was taken for granted that the wealthier classes enjoyed a life of leisure on the backs of the proletariat They still do. They always did. It’s just so that now you are the proletariat.
Assuming you are from a rich country, I find this kind of comment amusing. I mean, how can we really consider ourselves being the proletariat when our clothes are sewed by children in Pakistan?
It’s simple: They are our proletariat.
Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)
#165People like to write about utopia but don't really spend time on the core technology that enables it. Self-replicating machines etc.
Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was never practical to be self sufficient. Hunter gatherers living off the land worked together in tribes. People alone in the wilderness mostly die.
Sure...I never stated that self-sufficiency meant being alone. Hunter Gathers also had a relatively flat social hierarchy that was family & tribe oriented. The elders & leaders had direct skin in the game. There was no middle management or social abstractions in Hunter Gatherer society. They were healthy, happy, had plenty of game to hunt, managed forests, & had little pollution. There was no large scale wars. They w…
[deleted]
Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)
#167Every generation looks at technological progress and predicts the obvious conclusion, that people will have more leisure time. It’s easy to see that what you are doing now will be easier and quicker. They don’t see the new things that people will be doing, new social structures to adapt and compete in, new information to process, and especially the cognitive burden of managing risk in so many new choices. The simples…
You don't see the leisure rich, because they don't "advertise" - they often have a few million in total assets and work on things they want to - you find them in non-profits, etc.
You could also consider the FIRE people to be leisure rich - often at even lower total assets. Paid off house, modest investments, even more modest expenses.
Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)
#168Not only do we have less time: 1. Both couple partners have to work in the past only one. 2. We work more. 3. We take loans (obligate to future work).
> 1. Both couple partners have to work in the past only one. Why is it so? I always hear that. I am not married yet but I keep it a little challenge to myself to one day disprove that. I believe with a clever lifestyle of not spending on useless stuff and moving into a cheap region one can easily make that work. So I say, brazenly and naively ...
A large part of this is that many people feel that a two-person household must inevitably grow to more than two people.
If children aren't a life goal for you, it gets a lot easier.
Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)
#169It seems obvious that we have no more leisure time now than before. But consider the huge leisure industries that have grown over the past 100 years. Movies, TV, now streaming services. Radio and now Spotify and podcasts. Video games. Sports and all the media around sports. Even social media is arguably mostly entertainment these days. Or look at active leisure. How many more cyclists and rock climbers are there toda…
A huge part of it is now everything's outsourced - dual income families are the norm now, and the housework still has to be done. That alone would count for a large amount of lost leisure.
You also have commutes going from walking to driving - and the first may feel leisurely but the second rarely does.
Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)
#170I am amazed at the disdain for leisure and "free" time and "slacking" in the comments here. If a person has enough to survive, why would they toil and labour? Just do whatever you like! I suspect a big problem is that many people actually don't know what they like to do. Most people with full-time jobs I know don't have much energy left after their workday, and thus the only "leisure" they are still capable of and th…
Two contributing factors are religion and social identity. The “Protestant work ethic” has played a role in shaping American social views about work. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic American society often anchors identity in work (“Nice to meet you. What do you do?”). An example search result for “work and American identity” turned up this survey from 2014: 55% of Americans get a sense of identi…
I think it's also very easy to just look around at all the problems and mysteries in the world/universe and feel compelled to do something. Even in the absence of any kind of "religious work ethic".