Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 381 posts

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#151

Post by sdeframond »

snowwrestler wrote: post #130

It seems obvious that we have no more leisure time now than before. But consider the huge leisure industries that have grown over the past 100 years. Movies, TV, now streaming services. Radio and now Spotify and podcasts. Video games. Sports and all the media around sports. Even social media is arguably mostly entertainment these days. Or look at active leisure. How many more cyclists and rock climbers are there toda…

> Judging by the shape of the economy, there is a lot more leisure time than before.

I'd argue that the size of the leisure economy and the amount of leisure time are only very loosely correlated.

For example, if I meditate for 1 hour it is leisure time with no direct economic impact.

One the other hand, one could argue that the more leisure time we have, the more we will spend in leisure related equipment, culture etc.

However, one might also argue that leisure related spending correlates with disposable income, not leisure time.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#152

Post by saiya-jin »

upsidesinclude wrote: post #78
mandmandam wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am downvoting because the comment acts as if it's a mystery where all the wealth gains in productivity have gone. It is NOT a fucking mystery, and I'm outraged that so, so many people are or act oblivious to the obscenely obvious cause. (Since it's not actually obvious to everyone, thanks to shit education and propaganda, the uber-wealthy have hoovered up the gains in productivity and kept it to themselves.) It's v…

And no one cares about your diatribe or outrage. The point is that there is always an elite or wealthy class, pick which group you like best. Always, for all time this is what happens in society. Don't care about your one example of some communist paradise that was great.

So what, giving up so easily on problem so obvious is usually done by people who are well off and actually have to lose, or those who for some basic reason don't understand they are also the ones getting fucked over (ie patriotism can push folks easily in very stupid positions and in the same time make them feel good about their actions).

If you traveled a bit around the world, maybe you could see that nothing is binary, and neither is this topic.

Elites always exist in some form, yes. They do not always have to be so disproportionally distanced from rest of population like in US, not in democracies, not so untouchable. There are tons of countries, ie in Europe who are managing this in much better way.

The wider problem/situation I see is that US is much more everybody-for-themselves-and-fuck-the-rest because it maximizes direct incomes of few (ignoring how much they will spend on ie healthcare or education of their kids, these 2 can easily wipe out aby gains for middle/upper middle class), rather than living in actual modern society.

The logic of 'contributing back and improving place you live actually comes back to you too and creates something better for future of you/your kids' somehow didn't click in US that much. I saw first hand rather primitive knee-jerk reactions in ie bible belt in US that equate well working society with socialism, (I guess phonetical step not too big, logical though much bigger) and well that's communism and you should be deported/jailed/shot on spot.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#153

Post by andsoitis »

hansword wrote: post #25

I am amazed at the disdain for leisure and "free" time and "slacking" in the comments here. If a person has enough to survive, why would they toil and labour? Just do whatever you like! I suspect a big problem is that many people actually don't know what they like to do. Most people with full-time jobs I know don't have much energy left after their workday, and thus the only "leisure" they are still capable of and th…

One emergent process of the technological age is the drive to optimize ourselves (humans) as if we are machines for increased productivity. Think of all the ways we measure aspects of our behavior, goals, accomplishments.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#154

Post by mch82 »

hansword wrote: post #25

I am amazed at the disdain for leisure and "free" time and "slacking" in the comments here. If a person has enough to survive, why would they toil and labour? Just do whatever you like! I suspect a big problem is that many people actually don't know what they like to do. Most people with full-time jobs I know don't have much energy left after their workday, and thus the only "leisure" they are still capable of and th…

Two contributing factors are religion and social identity.

The “Protestant work ethic” has played a role in shaping American social views about work. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic

American society often anchors identity in work (“Nice to meet you. What do you do?”). An example search result for “work and American identity” turned up this survey from 2014: 55% of Americans get a sense of identity from their job. https://news.gallup.com/poll/175400/workers-sense-identity-j...

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#155

Post by briantakita »

dang wrote: post #135
briantakita wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

This sort of over-the-top flamewar comment is off topic on HN. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. We've had to ask you before not to post like this. If you keep it up, we're going to have to ban you—not because we disagree with your views (we don't know or care what those are) but because we don't want this place to burn to a crisp. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/news…

So you respond by being hyperbolic...If you want to ban me, go ahead. I have no intention in creating a "flamewar". I'm not sure what exactly I'm "destroying" here so go ahead & do whatever you see fit...As far as I'm concerned, I made a statement of truth with historical analogy. Is history now verboten as an "over-the-top flamewar"? You have proven my point of group coercion & why it is dangerous for individuals to subjugate themselves to the group or "management".

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#156

Post by CodeSgt »

annyeonghada wrote: post #136
CodeSgt wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it occurred to you that the lack of people willing to pay for what you're trying to offer may be indicative that it's not quite as valuable as you perceive it to be? I don't think it's work specifically that's tied to morality, but production. If someone is obviously consuming more than they're producing, then they're going to get negative attention. In 2022 it's not always clear exactly how much someone is produ…

>Has it occurred to you that the lack of people willing to pay for what you're trying to offer may be indicative that it's not quite as valuable as you perceive it to be? Is producing cigarettes, making apps more addictives, making food superpalatable, synthetizing pernicious drugs and so on more valuable than producing documentaries, studying ancient languages and civilazations, studying exoterical physics topics? N…

I guess that depends on how you define value. Tobacco, while unhealthy, can have great value to the user. Those addictive apps provide a low cost leisure activity for millions of people. We all benefit from advances in food sciences every day. Many of those pernicious have a purpose and are often more helpful than they are harmful.

All the things you mentioned provide at least short term tangible benefits to the consumers. How will the average person benefit from the study of ancient languages and civilizations or esoteric physics? People already pay for documentaries they're interested in, there's a reason they're produced. Why do you think academia for academia's sake is inherently beneficial for the rest of society? I see this notion of expressed here and elsewhere that if something is academically challenging or interesting, it must therefore be good to spend time studying.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#157

Post by cecilpl2 »

causality0 wrote: post #126
hansword wrote: post #25

I am amazed at the disdain for leisure and "free" time and "slacking" in the comments here. If a person has enough to survive, why would they toil and labour? Just do whatever you like! I suspect a big problem is that many people actually don't know what they like to do. Most people with full-time jobs I know don't have much energy left after their workday, and thus the only "leisure" they are still capable of and th…

Just do whatever you like! Are you sure they're wrong? Judging by the people I know, there's little overlap between having a ton of free time and being a happy, satisfied person. "Just eating whatever you want" results in being a five hundred pound diabetic who dies of a heart attack at 40. Are we so certain "just doing whatever you want" isn't equally toxic to our happiness and mental health?

> "Just eating whatever you want" results in being a five hundred pound diabetic who dies of a heart attack at 40.

This is categorically untrue for much (I'd hazard to say most) of the population. It's certainly untrue for me. I don't like feeling full, and I don't really gain weight when I eat whatever I want.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#158

Post by [deleted] »

hansword wrote: post #25

I am amazed at the disdain for leisure and "free" time and "slacking" in the comments here. If a person has enough to survive, why would they toil and labour? Just do whatever you like! I suspect a big problem is that many people actually don't know what they like to do. Most people with full-time jobs I know don't have much energy left after their workday, and thus the only "leisure" they are still capable of and th…

[deleted]

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#159

Post by sdeframond »

rbanffy wrote: post #132

> Once upon a time, it was taken for granted that the wealthier classes enjoyed a life of leisure on the backs of the proletariat They still do. They always did. It’s just so that now you are the proletariat.

Assuming you are from a rich country, I find this kind of comment amusing.

I mean, how can we really consider ourselves being the proletariat when our clothes are sewed by children in Pakistan?

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#160

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #158
hansword wrote: post #25

I am amazed at the disdain for leisure and "free" time and "slacking" in the comments here. If a person has enough to survive, why would they toil and labour? Just do whatever you like! I suspect a big problem is that many people actually don't know what they like to do. Most people with full-time jobs I know don't have much energy left after their workday, and thus the only "leisure" they are still capable of and th…

[deleted]

[deleted]
Post reply on HN