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Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

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Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#91

Considering Bitcoin had never fallen lower than a previous cycles ATH (All Time High) until now, who is thinking that this might be a sign of the end of crypto? Each cycle goes higher was pretty much the only thing that kept the whole thing going. Now that is gone I think the space will dry up. Tether collapsing in the next couple weeks will likely put Bitcoin under $10,000

> the end of crypto How do you propose to replace the $100bn online drug market?

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#93
post #39

People here cheer for fall of Bitcoin and end of cryto not seeing that GOOG dropped from 2999.05 to 2157 and both charts look pretty much the same?

It's sour grapes. I first heard of bitcoin in a HN post 11 or so years ago and I'm still kicking myself for not mining a few thousand then. "Nice idea but it wont succeed" were my thoughts...

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#94
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's hoping. When stocks tank, one can decide if a company is undervalued and decide whether to buy in. Bitcoin has no value other than speculation, so it's a hard ask for people to buy in as it's never technically undervalued...

Bitcoin has value for the same reason Visa has value. A medium of exchange is a tool, and tools people use have value. I grant the majority of the market is speculation but many of us actually regularly use Bitcoin for things like payroll, settling debts, cheap international value transfer, buying coffee, and for cash-like privacy for online purchases. For those like me that have been continually buying, saving, and…

> Bitcoin has value for the same reason Visa has value.

No. Bitcoin has utility. Screws have utility also, they just don't have very much value.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#95
post #54

I wonder how the bitcoin mining industry is doing. Bitcoin's hash rate isn't falling [1], which suggests miners aren't able to reduce costs. Revenue on the other hand is tied to bitcoin price, which is falling. So what does that mean... are they headed for bankruptcy? [1] https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate

Taking the cost of the ASIC as a sunk cost, the amount of electricity required to mine a Bitcoin to be 150 kWh, the cost of electricity being 6 cents per kWh, and ignoring overhead such as wages and rent, then the breakeven price for Bitcoin mining is $9,000 USD. You may consider multiplying that by a factor to add some conservatism (though my estimates themselves may actually be conservative given that a lot of mini…

If the break-even price was $9,000, miners would be making a truckload of money, and more of them would be entering the market. Yet the opposite is happening. Miners are trying to disinvest by selling some of the hardware and struggling to find buyers. [1]

[1] https://blockworks.co/crashing-prices-expose-bitcoin-mining-...

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#96
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are used graphics cards worth buying or does bitcoin mining cause significant wear and damage to them?

Bitcoin mining is done with ASICs, not GPUs afaik. It's other currencies like Ethereum that use GPUs. I don't know what the extent of damage is though.

Some of us are waiting for the FPGA rigs to start to flood the market so we can do other stuff with them ..... the lower BTC goes the better

I did like the comment someone made on twitter the Elon's raving causing crypto to crash had done more for the planet than all the teslas ....

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#97
post #23

My favourite side effect is the Graphics Card prices coming back to realities.

Prices are gonna be dirt cheap after Ethereum switches to proof of stake in September

Hasn't that been promised and delayed dozens of times already? Do you think it will ever really happen?

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#98
post #65
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast majority of alt-coins cannot be exchanged against dollars I mean. You could, like, sell them on a forum or in person. With your wallet which is supposed to enable you to do just that. I admire the success of crypto-exchanges' marketing in making them out to be the only way to conduct transactions on a friggin transaction management system . But then you 'd have to deal with the fact that next to no one wan…

What you are saying is kind of orthogonal. Nowadays you can and people do indeed sell crypto in person, and using your wallet. But you use a stablecoin because it's much more convenient since its stable . Then with such stablecoin you have purchased, you swap it for your desired altcoin either on a centralized exchange or decentralized exchange. I don't agree with the other comment that the USDT/Altcoin pair is such…

> But you use a stablecoin because it's much more convenient since its stable.

I don't know how to say this without sounding snide but I am genuinely curious: you need to back every single part of that sentence up with some serious citations.

Specifically can you challenge my perception that you're advocating for option B of the following: Option A: find someone to trade for , haggle, transact. Option B: trust some tentacled bio-monstrosity to perform sophisticated transaction chains with a ton of misaligned incentives at each layer.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#99
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many of us actually regularly use Bitcoin for things like payroll Please define "many" when it comes to settling payroll to employees.

I run a high-risk security and applied cryptography consulting firm so naturally most of my clients are in the crypto-asset industry. Multiple offer payroll in crypto-assets to all staff, and one pays all employees in it exclusively to avoid hires that do not have an interest in the space. I pay most subcontractors in Bitcoin too. Unlike paying in company stock you do not deal with nonsense like AMT or blackout perio…

So the advantage of using crypto is that it is good for those that use crypto? Your argument is circular.

> avoid hires that do not have an interest in the space

> saves me having to buy from exchanges

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#100

Considering Bitcoin had never fallen lower than a previous cycles ATH (All Time High) until now, who is thinking that this might be a sign of the end of crypto? Each cycle goes higher was pretty much the only thing that kept the whole thing going. Now that is gone I think the space will dry up. Tether collapsing in the next couple weeks will likely put Bitcoin under $10,000

> Considering Bitcoin had never fallen lower than a previous cycles ATH (All Time High) until now, who is thinking that this might be a sign of the end of crypto? This sounds like just another one of those synthetic signposts people create around crypto. It's just a pattern. It has no particular significance; beyond the fact that if enough people believe in it, then it might influence their actions in a way that move…

It's also worth pointing out that Bitcoin was created after the last major crash in 2008, there's no precedent for its behaviour in the current one.

Ironically it was also made as a hedge against the existing financial systems, but eventually became just an extension of them. Became "the very thing it swore to destroy".

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