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Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

bloomberg.com

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Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#81

Post by lrvick »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #71
lrvick wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin has value for the same reason Visa has value. A medium of exchange is a tool, and tools people use have value. I grant the majority of the market is speculation but many of us actually regularly use Bitcoin for things like payroll, settling debts, cheap international value transfer, buying coffee, and for cash-like privacy for online purchases. For those like me that have been continually buying, saving, and…

You shouldn't have your wealth stored in a medium of exchange, while expecting capital appreciation exceeding or even comparable to the equity market. That kind of volatility is a sign of there being something seriously wrong with that medium of exchange.

Storing wealth in an -inflationary- asset like fiat currency is a stupid move, I grant. I store value in a mix of fixed quantity or -deflationary- assets that are useful or interesting to me like art, vehicles, real estate, and yes... crypto-assets. The latter is perhaps the most volatile but also has the highest liquidity, is fireproof, can be traded for other assets anonymously, etc. Tradeoffs.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#82

Post by listenallyall »

lrvick wrote: post #55
silisili wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's hoping. When stocks tank, one can decide if a company is undervalued and decide whether to buy in. Bitcoin has no value other than speculation, so it's a hard ask for people to buy in as it's never technically undervalued...

Bitcoin has value for the same reason Visa has value. A medium of exchange is a tool, and tools people use have value. I grant the majority of the market is speculation but many of us actually regularly use Bitcoin for things like payroll, settling debts, cheap international value transfer, buying coffee, and for cash-like privacy for online purchases. For those like me that have been continually buying, saving, and…

> many of us actually regularly use Bitcoin for things like payroll

Please define "many" when it comes to settling payroll to employees.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#83

Post by redox99 »

lottin wrote: post #58
sweetbitter wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anything could be better for cryptographic currencies than most of the speculators having their investments crushed.

Except that their only use case is speculation, so once speculators are gone... nothing is left.

There are goods you can only buy online with cryptocurrencies

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#84

Post by lrvick »

igorkraw wrote: post #79
lrvick wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The miners have no incentive to mine unless there are a large number of people choosing to exchange Bitcoin giving it buying power to offset electricity cost.

So you are saying there is no value to be extracted? Shocking

I feel certain you understood that is not at all what I was saying.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#85

Post by rvz »

silisili wrote: post #31
drawingthesun wrote: post #11

Considering Bitcoin had never fallen lower than a previous cycles ATH (All Time High) until now, who is thinking that this might be a sign of the end of crypto? Each cycle goes higher was pretty much the only thing that kept the whole thing going. Now that is gone I think the space will dry up. Tether collapsing in the next couple weeks will likely put Bitcoin under $10,000

Here's hoping. When stocks tank, one can decide if a company is undervalued and decide whether to buy in. Bitcoin has no value other than speculation, so it's a hard ask for people to buy in as it's never technically undervalued...

> Here's hoping. When stocks tank, one can decide if a company is undervalued and decide whether to buy in.

Even those stocks that underwent the SPAC route that also offer no dividends and are beyond loss making to the point at which they will be delisted?

I don't see how SPACs that aren't making any money like $BZFD or $NKLA are any better than Bitcoin.

Let's hope these shady SPACs don't start repeating the ills of other non-SPACs as the tide turns bearish by losing $1B mysteriously like Wirecard or fabricating your financial reports which Luckin Coffee did.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#87

Post by lrvick »

listenallyall wrote: post #82
lrvick wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin has value for the same reason Visa has value. A medium of exchange is a tool, and tools people use have value. I grant the majority of the market is speculation but many of us actually regularly use Bitcoin for things like payroll, settling debts, cheap international value transfer, buying coffee, and for cash-like privacy for online purchases. For those like me that have been continually buying, saving, and…

> many of us actually regularly use Bitcoin for things like payroll Please define "many" when it comes to settling payroll to employees.

I run a high-risk security and applied cryptography consulting firm so naturally most of my clients are in the crypto-asset industry. Multiple offer payroll in crypto-assets to all staff, and one pays all employees in it exclusively to avoid hires that do not have an interest in the space. I pay most subcontractors in Bitcoin too.

Unlike paying in company stock you do not deal with nonsense like AMT or blackout periods.

I for one am thankful for the regular clients that pay me in crypto-assets, and wish all would. It saves me having to buy from exchanges. Makes for an easy dollar-cost-averaging strategy too.

Re: Bitcoin Falls Below $20k for the First Time Since 2020

#88

Post by scoopertrooper »

lottin wrote: post #54

I wonder how the bitcoin mining industry is doing. Bitcoin's hash rate isn't falling [1], which suggests miners aren't able to reduce costs. Revenue on the other hand is tied to bitcoin price, which is falling. So what does that mean... are they headed for bankruptcy? [1] https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate

Taking the cost of the ASIC as a sunk cost, the amount of electricity required to mine a Bitcoin to be 150 kWh, the cost of electricity being 6 cents per kWh, and ignoring overhead such as wages and rent, then the breakeven price for Bitcoin mining is $9,000 USD.

You may consider multiplying that by a factor to add some conservatism (though my estimates themselves may actually be conservative given that a lot of mining happens in country with low energy and labour prices), but it still seems like it's more profitable to keep the ASICs running than to switch them off, which is attested to by the fact the hashrate hasn't been significantly affected by the recent fluctuations in price.

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...

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