Steve Jobs' memo to startups • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#91

Post by EGreg » Mon, Oct 31, 2011, 7:18 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #55

veyron wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he's criticizing is doing a startup specifically so that it could be flipped later. If you are in it to build a real company, you actually go through the hard work that Jobs is talking about. Did you start viaweb to sell it to someone else later, or did you start it to build an actual sustainable business?

We started it to sell. We were not interested in online stores. Some of the problems were kind of interesting, but neither I nor Robert nor Trevor thought of Viaweb as our life's work. Incidentally, building a business to sell doesn't mean it can't be sustainable. Viaweb made Yahoo lots of money.

I think you are successful partly because you got the right people together to make viaweb and sold it. Now you are able to do much more with your life. It's interesting that when one dreams big (as I do), that sometimes gets in the way of making your first startup have a successful exit. We are working on a huge thing and partly creating a new market, and unfortunately had no time to follow my own advice and flip a company first. Wish I did, I think I would have been ahead of where I am today.

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#92

Post by pg » Mon, Oct 31, 2011, 7:31 PM UTC

hedgehog wrote: post #86

pg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this may be the one you mean: http://paulgraham.com/prcmc.html

There's a typo down in the credits (Jessica's name).

Fixed; thanks.

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#93

Post by anon808 » Mon, Oct 31, 2011, 7:32 PM UTC

jarek wrote: post #59

anon808 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no rules, you can do whatever you want. But i think a lot of people have realized history shows the get rich quick type of folks tend not to actually contribute anything to human progress and more often than not are looking to take advantage of others for their own gain (allowing them to save time to riches). My question: Why would I ever want to deal with anyone like that, and why would anyone else?

How many people are actually contributing anything to human progress?

who cares. all you can control is what you choose to do.

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#94

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 31, 2011, 7:32 PM UTC

staunch wrote: post #88

RussRomStanBety wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Steve Jobs would ever say anything of sorts. Jobs did the exact same thing with NeXT. Does that mean that he didn't consider himself an entrepreneur? Human emotion plays a big role in our decision making and you can't have the same feelings for every project you start.

He didn't start NeXT with the intention of selling it. He was trying re-create Apple from scratch. Instead he ended up parlaying it into a take-over of Apple and re-created it from within. I'm not weighing in on the definition of "entrepreneur" here, just pointing out why NeXT isn't a counter example.

[deleted]

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#95

Post by anon808 » Mon, Oct 31, 2011, 7:33 PM UTC

omarchowdhury wrote: post #64

anon808 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no rules, you can do whatever you want. But i think a lot of people have realized history shows the get rich quick type of folks tend not to actually contribute anything to human progress and more often than not are looking to take advantage of others for their own gain (allowing them to save time to riches). My question: Why would I ever want to deal with anyone like that, and why would anyone else?

Maybe one needs to take care of their own progress before they can take care of others?

they're not mutually exclusive

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#96

Post by PLejeck » Mon, Oct 31, 2011, 7:33 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #89

away wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you obviously weren't doing what you love with viaweb if your entire goal was to sell it to turn a profit so that you'd never have to deal with it again. And Steve's assertion is not about work ethic, it's about building a "real company". I don't think Steve would consider you to be a real entrepreneur. In his biography, it's stated several times how he doesn't want to make things just because people want them,…

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I believe in "pandering to the masses," but maybe this will cure that misconception: http://paulgraham.com/usa.html .

"But the just-do-it model does have advantages. It seems the clear winner for generating wealth and technical innovations (which are practically the same thing)."

Today, wealth and technical innovations have separated quite a lot. A great programming language will make less money than the programs built upon it. I don't think this is entirely valid in the world of today, where open-source software is often some of the most innovative.

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#97

Post by jarek » Mon, Oct 31, 2011, 7:34 PM UTC

anon808 wrote: post #95

omarchowdhury wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe one needs to take care of their own progress before they can take care of others?

they're not mutually exclusive

except when they are

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#98

Post by jasongullickson » Mon, Oct 31, 2011, 7:34 PM UTC

tlammens wrote: post #54

pg wrote: post #24

I can't say he was mistaken, since he was only saying he disliked it. But I don't think there's anything wrong with selling a company at any stage. Steve's problem with selling seemed to be that you're shirking work by doing it. But that isn't necessarily, or even usually, true. A lot of people who sell startups go on to do other things, and often bigger things. If we were still running Viaweb, we could not have star…

Another example would be Elon Musk who would still be doing Zip2 instead of giving the world PayPal, SpaceX or Tesla Motors.

This is a good point, but begs the question, why is it necessary to start a new company (and depart the previous one) to pursue these ventures?

I'm sure I'm just oblivious to some legal, financial, etc. benefit of building separate company "entities" for each project but personally I prefer the idea of starting the next General Electric than a string of noun-deprived orphan companies.

Keeping your name associated with the trail you leave behind keeps you honest; perhaps this is what Steve was getting at?

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#99

Post by PLejeck » Mon, Oct 31, 2011, 7:36 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #94

staunch wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't start NeXT with the intention of selling it. He was trying re-create Apple from scratch. Instead he ended up parlaying it into a take-over of Apple and re-created it from within. I'm not weighing in on the definition of "entrepreneur" here, just pointing out why NeXT isn't a counter example.

[deleted]

Steve Jobs did not just get a job at Apple and go back to gruntwork or managing a subsidiary. No, he took back the company and reshaped it.

If he had been unable to direct Apple in the direction he wanted after the reverse takeover, I doubt he would have accepted it.

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#100

Post by PLejeck » Mon, Oct 31, 2011, 7:38 PM UTC

gizmo wrote: post #70

pg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YC is different. We didn't even think of it as a company at first, just an interesting project. It has turned out to be one of those cases where a side project takes over your life (sort of like Facebook, though much more gradual), but that wasn't planned. We just kept getting more applications and either had to grow or start rejecting people we thought were good. I never considered what I'd do if someone wanted to b…

I think those are the exact arguments Steve used about Apple (and Mark about Facebook). It was an interesting project; didn't plan it; it took over his life; other people would ruin it; the money was't an important factor. Interesting. Thanks.

This, in my opinion, is how one manages to do what they love.