Online privacy: to what extent should you try to go dark? • Hacker News Board

Re: Online privacy: to what extent should you try to go dark?

#21

Post by yubiox » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

Gigachad wrote: post #14

yubiox wrote: post #12

Even just basic malware blocking disables a lot of websites. I can't use some air and hotel sites (aa.com, ihg.com for example) anymore, plus unsubscribing from somewhat normal spam is almost impossible because the unsub links have trackers or something.

I don’t bother unsubscribing. Just filter to spam and ignore.

Right, for pure spam, yes. I want to know about my hotel or air reservation but not get their junk email. So I can't go scorched earth on them, but I can't unsub from the junk either due to my tracker dns blackhole.

Re: Online privacy: to what extent should you try to go dark?

#22

Post by defrost » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 1:16 AM UTC

FWiW Greg Egan has had a good run - 40 years online, 10+ novels, many short stories, Hugo and Campbell awards (and others) . . . and yet:

No verified images nor any evidence that is indeed his real name.

Re: Online privacy: to what extent should you try to go dark?

#23

Post by ghaff » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 1:17 AM UTC

It's a bit hard for me to understand what's being argued for here. For many people in publicly visible positions, it's not practical to avoid having an online identity under your real name. This is not even exclusively a white collar issue for someone who speaks at conferences etc., how about a contractor who needs an online presence to find clients?

Certainly there are steps someone can take to be make themselves invisible online but it severely limits career and other options.

Re: Online privacy: to what extent should you try to go dark?

#24

Post by wolverine876 » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 1:20 AM UTC

kornhole wrote: post #3

Author does not mention the major reason I care which is that allowing others to know what we are doing, thinking, saying, where we are going.. either individually or collectively anonymously or not, gives them power over us in many ways to predict, manipulate, dispossess.. which leads to the imbalances we have today of the haves and have nots of data. The people who say big tech already has so much data on them so w…

It also leads to manipulation. People don't want to hear that - they think, as imagine many people reading this are thinking, that they aren't manipulated.

People are manipulated on a large scale. States, advertisers, political movements, and others are investing a lot of money in it. They are getting something for their money.

That is the most important issue; that is the power in our society. Propaganda was effective before the Internet. Now, with incredible amounts of information about your behavior, interests, needs, situation, etc., and with expertise and A/B testing, it's certainly possible to move the needle. Yes, for you and me too.

Re: Online privacy: to what extent should you try to go dark?

#25

Post by wolverine876 » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 1:21 AM UTC

kornhole wrote: post #10

superb-owl wrote: post #5

I think it's mostly pointless to put more than a basic minimum amount of effort into protecting your own privacy (e.g. sensible social media settings). There are too many surreptitious means of getting your info. Instead we need to focus our efforts on political action. Privacy is not something that can be controlled at the individual level when you're up against billion dollar budgets.

I agree that political action is needed, but I have almost no hope that any substantive legal changes will pass in near future. Big money and power prevent proposals from getting anywhere. It is up to us to protect ourselves and loved ones. It is a fun sport to evade the surveillance state.

> I have almost no hope that any substantive legal changes will pass in near future

This is the most popular move against action, to convince people it is hopeless. In fact, when the people want something strongly enough, it certainly happens. There is a long, well-established history of it.

Re: Online privacy: to what extent should you try to go dark?

#26

Post by wolverine876 » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 1:23 AM UTC

superb-owl wrote: post #5

I think it's mostly pointless to put more than a basic minimum amount of effort into protecting your own privacy (e.g. sensible social media settings). There are too many surreptitious means of getting your info. Instead we need to focus our efforts on political action. Privacy is not something that can be controlled at the individual level when you're up against billion dollar budgets.

I wouldn't call it pointless. You can use Signal and essentially have your communications disappear. Technological tools being available make the legal solutions practical.

But I agree that the legal solution is certainly necessary and most essential.

Re: Online privacy: to what extent should you try to go dark?

#27

Post by wolverine876 » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 1:24 AM UTC

encryptluks2 wrote: post #7

I guess it really depends on what country you live in. In America, history has taught me people with enough money and power can destroy your life with immunity and that you could be one election away from 1984 or Hunger Games.

They can only do it if you do nothing. It's a system that requires the people to act. What are you doing about it?

Re: Online privacy: to what extent should you try to go dark?

#28

Post by nr2x » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 1:32 AM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #20

Barrin92 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>either individually or collectively anonymously or not, gives them power over us in many ways to predict, manipulate, dispossess The thing is, is that actually true? What always comes to mind for me is the Cambridge Analytica scandal, which involved their self-declared 'psychometric targeting', which it turned out, after scientists did some studies had a measurable effect of zero on people's behaviour[1]. People lov…

If you think you're not being manipulated, you're deluded. Advertising works . It worked before the Internet and there's even more of it now. We do still have individual agency but don't you want a cool refreshing Coca-Cola right about now?

Actually the research is fairly mixed as we’re dealing with N-variable systems of technology, communication, economics, and a non trivial amount of fraud.

Re: Online privacy: to what extent should you try to go dark?

#29

Post by charcircuit » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 1:36 AM UTC

rkagerer wrote: post #18

People ask why should they care? Unfortunately the average person tends to be less concerned about invasions of privacy they cannot see. Like when you go through a scanner at the airport which let's someone in another room basically see through your clothes, vs. the way you feel if someone standing in front of you says to strip naked.

I care even less about when it's just computers looking at the data which is pretty much the case for online advertisement.

Re: Online privacy: to what extent should you try to go dark?

#30

Post by TylerE » Sat, Jun 18, 2022, 1:39 AM UTC

Minor49er wrote: post #4

TylerE wrote: post #2

I don't bother. Not worth the effort. I assume everything I do is (potentially) seen by someone, and the typical approaches are only going to make me look more suspicious.

Look suspicious in what way?

Like, say, routing 100% of traffic through a vpn