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Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

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Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And modern Gnome is also terrible because they insist on supporting touchscreens as first-class input devices at the expense of sanely sized controls for the remaining 95% of users.

yea, i suppose that is the common theme between the two... at least it would explain a lot...

Gnome is at least capable of running on devices that have touchscreens. There aren't many of these, and many people who do have a touchscreen on their laptop don't use it, but at least it's a somewhat defensible position. Apple, on the other hand, still maintains two separate platforms for touch and non-touch input. There isn't a single Mac with a touchscreen and there probably won't be any in the foreseeable future. This design thus makes absolutely zero sense in macOS.

Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You may have missed it, but they redid that HIG and released it during the latest WWDC. They didn't redo it, they redesigned it. All the recommendations they are breaking are still there. > How about you... list some of these apps? I've been using macOS since Snow Leopard and all my muscle memory on the keyboard still works. Except Messages all of their new first party apps have horrible to no keyboard access: Home…

>They didn't redo it, they redesigned it. My point is that they have clearly acknowledged it's a thing and that it matters. >Music I really don't get your point here... I'm listening to Music right now and just spent a few minutes trying to use the keyboard. I don't really feel unable to do so. >How can it be less constrained when they literally crammed toolbar items into less space and redesigned dialog to be narrow…

> I'm listening to Music right now and just spent a few minutes trying to use the keyboard. I don't really feel unable to do so.

I'm not subscribed, but here's my experience.

When Music just starts, Tab is locked to a single pane.

Cmd+F to find something, how do I exit the search? Visually Esc does nothing.

While in Search Tab is locked to Search field. After Esc tabbing first does nothing, then cycles through top buttons, then goes somewhere?

There's no way to focus sidebar with keyboard. None of sublists there have a dedicated shortcut.

If you select something in the sidebar, Tab, And then Shift-Tab, the focus doesn't go back.

Once you've selected something (radio, or album, or artist, or...), how do you go back?

Focus is broken. Select an album, and tell me how exactly to get to the song list and navigate through it (hint: when you cannot see where it's gone, you can press Arro Down, and start going through the list).

That's 30 seconds of using this amazing first-party app. And that's before we start listsing all the ways it's badly designed, badly implemented, and breaks multiple Apple HIGs.

> The dialog that they're... expanding in Ventura? Where they acknowledged it should be bigger for certain cases?

Key word: "certain cases". So, they acknowledged nothing, but grudgingly reverted this inane behaviour for some random unknown length. As if desktop displays are have so little horizontal space.

> You're welcome to dislike change, I just think you're really stretching here.

Definitely not stretching. Changes to GUI have to justified. None of the changes since BigSur are. They are aggressively removing readabilty, affordances, plain humane contrast, etc. They introduce touch-only paradigms to a touchless OS. And so on.

To quote people much smarter than I [1][2][3]:

--- start quote ---

...the work of people who put iOS first. People who by now think in iOS terms. People who view the venerable Mac OS user interface as an older person whose traits must be experimented upon, plastic surgery after plastic surgery, until this person looks younger. Unfortunately the effect is more like this person ends up looking… weird.

These people look at the Mac’s UI and (that’s the impression, at least) don’t really understand it. Its foundations come from a past that almost seems inscrutable to them. Usability cues and features are all wrinkles to them. iOS and iPadOS don’t have these strange wrinkles, they muse. We must hide them. We’ll make this spectacular facelift and we’ll hide them, one by one. Mac OS will look as young (and foolish, cough) as iOS!

---

Going through Big Sur’s user interface with a fine-tooth comb reveals arbitrary design decisions that prioritise looks over function, and therefore reflect an un-learning of tried-and-true user interface and usability mechanics that used to make for a seamless, thoughtful, enjoyable Mac experience.

...an interface designer — who really should think like a chess player in these circumstances — can’t simply say It seemed like a good idea at the time to justify a UI change. There has to be a plan, a design. “Let’s try this, let’s try that” is not a strategy

...every time I point out some terrible or questionable UI design decision in Big Sur, there’s always, always someone who tells me “You’re just resisting change! You’re not willing to adapt!” without even entertaining the thought that, hey, maybe it is terrible UI design.

---

Apple’s approach when presenting the last few major Mac OS releases has always felt as if the most important thing to work on an operating system were its look & feel, rather than how this foundational tool can actually improve people’s work or tasks.

This insistence around the most superficial aspects of a graphical user interface — the look — often reminds me of the constant redesign iterations of some third-party apps in an attempt to make them more alluring to customers and to increase sales. The hyperfocus on always looking new and fresh

---

--- end quote ---

[1] https://morrick.me/archives/9368

[2] http://morrick.me/archives/9150

[3] https://morrick.me/archives/9407

Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#143
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on what problem you have that this rewrite would solve? (Serious question, not trying to be combative.) I can't remember ever having any problem displaying a PDF in macOS, though I don't do anything particularly outlandish with PDFs these days. Does Preview crash frequently for you? (Or does displaying PDFs from within your own apps crash?) I haven't heard of this issue, so just curious what the pro…

The problem is that writing a parser for a file format as complex as PDF in an unsafe language is just asking for trouble. There were many exploits already that involved a specially crafted PDF file to gain RCE, and there would probably be more, unless they do rewrite it. At this point we should just accept that it's next to impossible to write a 100% safe parser in an unsafe language.

Ah, I see what you mean. Yeah that makes total sense. Thanks for the explanation!

Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yea, i suppose that is the common theme between the two... at least it would explain a lot...

Gnome is at least capable of running on devices that have touchscreens. There aren't many of these, and many people who do have a touchscreen on their laptop don't use it, but at least it's a somewhat defensible position. Apple, on the other hand, still maintains two separate platforms for touch and non-touch input. There isn't a single Mac with a touchscreen and there probably won't be any in the foreseeable future.…

  > This design thus makes absolutely zero sense in macOS.
well, if they didnt do it, then ipad apps on macos would look really out of place, even catalyst ones....

what i find interesting is, that instead of building up ipad apps to match macos level of ui quality/sophistication, they compromise the more functional macos on the altar of ipad.... i find that a bit disappointing personally...

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