They need critical race theory training at spacex. That would solve this.
SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk
841–850 of 1001 posts
Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk
#842Free speech for me but not for thee.
Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk
#843Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is pretty hypocritical though for Mr. Free Speech to fire people who have concerns rather than address those concerns in a civil dialogue. Musk likes to whinge about “censorship” amounting to banning a Twitter account but seems perfectly okay firing someone and removing their livelihood for speaking critically of him. Also retaliation is very much still illegal, not that it matters.
This is the crux of the matter right here. I hate that people are doing all these weird gymnastics to reconcile being a champion of free speech and firing people that criticize you. Yeah, guys, it might be legal (maybe not) but it IS hypocritical. If you want to champion free speech you can't do this shit. Stop with the debate team bullshit and exercise some common sense.
Hard Disagree. Just freedom in all directions. You're free to say what you want, they're free to fire you for it. That's completely consistent.
Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk
#844Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fact that this comment is upvoted and is taken as a gotcha argument or something with any validity when it requires five seconds to realize it's easily refutable is not a good show for HN
Go for it, give it your finest five seconds.
There's no contradiction between desiring free speech in the public sphere - which is what Musk claims he wants - and not wanting to associate yourself with people who support certain speech, which is what Musk has done.
The comment I replied to before is a non sequitur, this doesn't mean what Musk is doing is right, simply that mindlessly upvoting a Trump-rally-tier argument is not conducive to anything good.
Eventually HN will become reddit and we'll just upvote "our side", regardless of whether the argument has merit.
Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk
#845Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is pretty hypocritical though for Mr. Free Speech to fire people who have concerns rather than address those concerns in a civil dialogue. Musk likes to whinge about “censorship” amounting to banning a Twitter account but seems perfectly okay firing someone and removing their livelihood for speaking critically of him. Also retaliation is very much still illegal, not that it matters.
Freedom of speech does not mean being free of consequences. Much like you're free to offend, the other side is free to be offended and employment goes both ways. Firing someone because they fundamentally disagree on how the company should be run is not censorship, it's keeping only people who align with the direction you're headed.
> Freedom of speech does not mean being free of consequences.
Wasn't that an old Soviet or similar joke? "In {country_name}, we have freedom of speech. What we don't have is freedom after speech".
Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk
#846Earlier quoted context omitted.
Activist employees are toxic to company culture. We created a rule that politics and religion were not appropriate topics at work. A couple of people quit in response, and morale improved dramatically.
> We created a rule that politics and religion were not appropriate topics at work. A couple of people quit in response, and morale improved dramatically. Yeah sounds totally believable.
Haven’t polls been done that show a majority of people don’t want to talk about politics at work?
Seems very believable to me.
Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk
#847Here's my unpopular opinion - good riddance. It's not a free speech issue because SpaceX isn't a public square. It's a company, and companies are top down. If these employees are at Musk's company, then they had better be prepared to play by Musk's rules, and they did the exact opposite, essentially leading a mutiny against the boss and sowing discord within the company in the process. SpaceX isn't an activist organi…
On one hand, I agree with you. I've personally seen low level people at a large corporation believe they were unequivocally in the right, and tried to use the weight of their moral conviction to impose their view of things onto everyone else. It's not your job to do this, and it's not my job to care. On the other hand, there has to be some capacity for this type of discussion to occur. Musk owns less than 50% of Spac…
> On the other hand, there has to be some capacity for this type of discussion to occur. Musk owns less than 50% of SpaceX, and I generally think employees should have some manner of input into the operations of the company they work for.
The other 50% are not woke.
Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk
#848Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everybody knows that he's within his rights to fire them. It just throws cold water on all his grandstanding about being a "free speech absolutist". EDIT: Everyone telling me that company employees are different from Twitter are missing the point. We know that. But he clearly doesn't care about free speech "absolutely" when he throws a fit that his employees are criticizing him.
To be fair though, Elon is in no way a "free speech absolutist", he just plays one on Twitter because he wants to freely manipulate the market to line his pockets, but still won't tolerate people critical of him.
This is nonsense.
You cannot compare at-will employment with public speech within the letter of the law.
Simplified:
Woke Cancer Culture != Protected Class
Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk
#849Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is pretty hypocritical though for Mr. Free Speech to fire people who have concerns rather than address those concerns in a civil dialogue. Musk likes to whinge about “censorship” amounting to banning a Twitter account but seems perfectly okay firing someone and removing their livelihood for speaking critically of him. Also retaliation is very much still illegal, not that it matters.
This is the crux of the matter right here. I hate that people are doing all these weird gymnastics to reconcile being a champion of free speech and firing people that criticize you. Yeah, guys, it might be legal (maybe not) but it IS hypocritical. If you want to champion free speech you can't do this shit. Stop with the debate team bullshit and exercise some common sense.
You can be a champion of free speech in public in the sense that you do not have your freedom of speech taken away from you. However SpaceX is not a public forum for your speech. You can't abuse internal email lists to have your speech reach more people than it would normally.
Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk
#850This company survives on public funding via NASA. This may be the biggest gift they could have given to their competitors. No one will care if their competitors have similar issues, SpaceX was sold as different and the illusion of that is fading.
> SpaceX was sold as different and the illusion of that is fading.
The "illusion" of what, building actually working and affordable space hardware? The only way that could "fade" would be if someone else like Boeing replicated their successes. As long as SpaceX is technically successful and others aren't, SpaceX being different will be not an illusion but reality even just on that basis alone.