SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk • Hacker News Board

Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk

#771

Post by runjake » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

andrepd wrote: post #693

runjake wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SpaceX President claims that the fired employees repeatedly spammed a large number of employees during paid time[1]. > "Blanketing thousands of people across the company with repeated unsolicited emails and asking them to sign letters > and fill out unsponsored surveys during the work day is not acceptable." I appreciate their spirit, because I think Elon is being juvenile and distracting, but this seems cut-and-…

Why are you taking their claims at face value?

Because, in the absence of other evidence, it's the best take I have.

Also, if the SpaceX president's statement is false, then the fired people probably have a lawsuit to file. Would the SpaceX president be that dumb? Maybe.

Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk

#772

Post by sumeno » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:34 PM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #692

HillRat wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even so, they're not protected against being fired -- circulating an internal letter criticizing leadership is, in a right to work state without existing workplace union agreements and outside of a whistleblower or other protected situation, enough to get you fired, though not fired for cause. Are the optics bad? Yes. Is it indicative that "free speech absolutist" Musk believes your right to speech ends where his fee…

“Musk believes your right to speech ends where his feelings get hurt? Certainly! ” This is totally incorrect. Free speech in this case is an opinion. The right to free speech is not freedom from consequences for voicing opinions.

Consequences like... being banned by Twitter perhaps?

Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk

#773

Post by giantrobot » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:34 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #647

axg11 wrote: post #110

This is a very predictable consequence of criticizing your employer via a public letter. Criticize internally all you want, and influence the changes that you want to see happen. Employment is a two-way relationship. If you don't like your employer, you are free to leave. If they don't like you, they are free to fire you (within legal bounds). Publishing an openly critical letter and signing it is a quick way to get…

> Criticize internally all you want Tell that to James Damore.

Unless you're a woman, then he'll deem you intellectually inferior a priori.

Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk

#774

Post by kmeisthax » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:35 PM UTC

logifail wrote: post #654

HillRat wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even so, they're not protected against being fired -- circulating an internal letter criticizing leadership is, in a right to work state without existing workplace union agreements and outside of a whistleblower or other protected situation, enough to get you fired, though not fired for cause. Are the optics bad? Yes. Is it indicative that "free speech absolutist" Musk believes your right to speech ends where his fee…

> Musk believes your right to speech ends where his feelings get hurt? It could be that Musk recognises that a significant group of his staff - likely the majority - simply don't want a loud minority group - possibly a tiny minority - "making waves" and intimidating others into joining their cause. I've just started Nassim Nicholas Taleb's latest book, but in previous work he wrote about "The Most Intolerant Wins: Th…

This isn't entirely applicable here - the minority group isn't being picky, they are alleging misconduct.

Also, that linked post is something else. In the span of one really long essay, he went from halal food, to trying to intellectually rehabilitate Brexit, to a maximally-extended version of the Paradox of Tolerance, and then finally to disproving the right-libertarian thesis that market manipulation is impossible. I genuinely can't tell if this is brilliantly considered, or just authoritarian right-wingers trying to specifically feed me propaganda.

Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk

#775

Post by Blikkentrekker » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:37 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #438

I can't imagine trashing my CEO and expecting to keep my job. Maybe that's a Gen-X thing?

It's a “living in any developed and most non-developed nations that aren't the U.S.A.”-thing.

Courts in the E.U. would not look kindly upon being fired in retaliation for criticizing the public behavior of one's employer.

Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk

#776

Post by ajhurliman » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:41 PM UTC

throwyawayyyy wrote: post #644

toomanyrichies wrote: post #434

To those arguing that this letter is tantamount to insubordination and is therefore a fireable offense: “Insubordination (noun)- refusing to obey orders from someone in authority.” [1] Unless they had received direct orders not to criticize Musk at all, internally or externally, they are not guilty of refusing to obey orders. And if they had received such orders, that only adds to Musk’s burgeoning reputation for pet…

Well, sure, it's probably legal to fire them. But it smacks of "one rule for me, one rule for thee" from Mr "free speech absolutist" Musk, right?

I think there's a higher bar for working at Twitter than there is for having an account on Twitter

Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk

#777

Post by ganoushoreilly » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

kenneth wrote: post #636

I am personally thrilled to see a company stand up to cancel culture and political employee activism. The ridiculous non-work related distractions from employee on various political crusades we've been seeing at many companies like Google are one of the things ruining Silicon Valley. It's nice to see Elon not allowing it at his companies, and Coinbase in being another standout against this silliness.

I think we're on the tail end of Extreme activism working within organizations. Everyone talks about the pendulum swinging and I think with economic downturns, people will find out really quickly how fast it can swing back.

Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk

#778

Post by sashu123 » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

Glad to finally see a CEO acting like a monarch and not a pathetic wimp. We need more such companies to restore order in the society

Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk

#779

Post by bitwize » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:42 PM UTC

My parents ran a small factory in the 1970s. One of their employees was a hippie who kept ranting about how they were a part of "the system". About him they said "We had to fire that guy" because his attitude toward his employers indicated he couldn't be relied on to do the job that was asked of him.

Elon Musk can make a grade-A ass of himself, but within the bounds of the law to work for him is to serve at his pleasure. Complaining about him and NOT expecting the potential axe is madness.

Re: SpaceX said to fire employees involved in letter rebuking Elon Musk

#780

Post by AlexandrB » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 5:43 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #590

wmeredith wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> using company resources for personal use and intimidation of their peers That sounds like their CEO.

He doesn't intimidate his peers, he intimidates his lessers. It's conservatism in a nutshell. The end game is a class of people protected by the rules, but not bound by them, and another class that's bound by them, but not protected.

“For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law.”