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Steve Jobs' memo to startups

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Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#51

Post by gizmo »

pg wrote: post #24

I can't say he was mistaken, since he was only saying he disliked it. But I don't think there's anything wrong with selling a company at any stage. Steve's problem with selling seemed to be that you're shirking work by doing it. But that isn't necessarily, or even usually, true. A lot of people who sell startups go on to do other things, and often bigger things. If we were still running Viaweb, we could not have star…

Then the interesting question is: would you be willing to sell YC in the next couple of years if the price is right?

(My hunch is that you're not going to sell YC anytime soon -- even though you probably could sell it -- simply because you're not done yet.)

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#52

Post by [deleted] »

pg wrote: post #24

I can't say he was mistaken, since he was only saying he disliked it. But I don't think there's anything wrong with selling a company at any stage. Steve's problem with selling seemed to be that you're shirking work by doing it. But that isn't necessarily, or even usually, true. A lot of people who sell startups go on to do other things, and often bigger things. If we were still running Viaweb, we could not have star…

[deleted]

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#53

Post by funkah »

kalleboo wrote: post #2

Source? edit: did some googling and it's from the biography. This is what I hate about tumblr. It's all completely random stuff with no context, no sourcing and no discussion, just those pointless reblog "notes" edit2: of course, biography not autobiography, dunno what I was thinking

Huh? What does Tumblr have to do with anything?

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#54

Post by tlammens »

pg wrote: post #24

I can't say he was mistaken, since he was only saying he disliked it. But I don't think there's anything wrong with selling a company at any stage. Steve's problem with selling seemed to be that you're shirking work by doing it. But that isn't necessarily, or even usually, true. A lot of people who sell startups go on to do other things, and often bigger things. If we were still running Viaweb, we could not have star…

Another example would be Elon Musk who would still be doing Zip2 instead of giving the world PayPal, SpaceX or Tesla Motors.

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#55

Post by pg »

veyron wrote: post #35
pg wrote: post #24

I can't say he was mistaken, since he was only saying he disliked it. But I don't think there's anything wrong with selling a company at any stage. Steve's problem with selling seemed to be that you're shirking work by doing it. But that isn't necessarily, or even usually, true. A lot of people who sell startups go on to do other things, and often bigger things. If we were still running Viaweb, we could not have star…

What he's criticizing is doing a startup specifically so that it could be flipped later. If you are in it to build a real company, you actually go through the hard work that Jobs is talking about. Did you start viaweb to sell it to someone else later, or did you start it to build an actual sustainable business?

We started it to sell. We were not interested in online stores. Some of the problems were kind of interesting, but neither I nor Robert nor Trevor thought of Viaweb as our life's work.

Incidentally, building a business to sell doesn't mean it can't be sustainable. Viaweb made Yahoo lots of money.

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#56

Post by nirvana »

gizmo wrote: post #47
noonespecial wrote: post #23

I kind of think the opposite. Entrepreneurs are the ones that create viable businesses, cash in, and move on (usually to try to do it again.) Steve, on the other hand, created the mother of all lifestyle businesses. (for his value of lifestyle, of course)

I think that's stretching the definition of lifestyle business a bit much. Surely not every person who starts a business for the long haul is building a lifestyle business? A lifestyle business is a business you start in order to live a certain lifestyle. The dictionary definition talks about generating an income that is sufficient to sustain a lifestyle, but no more. Steve certainly didn't start Apple because he wan…

I don't know if there's a definitive definition of "lifestyle business", but I've often seen this phrase used derogatorily, on hacker news, to dismiss any business not taking venture capital, not trying to be the next google, or not being built to flip.

In a way, Apple is, then, a really good example of a "lifestyle business" as that term is used here. They didn't take a lot of venture capital, they weren't built to flip, and they weren't trying to be the next anything. They focused on long term business success.

Choices made based on long term business success (Such as, retaining enough control to make sure the business doesn't get flipped against the founders will) often, on this site, results in the accusation that you're "just building a lifestyle business".

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#57

Post by [deleted] »

funkah wrote: post #53
kalleboo wrote: post #2

Source? edit: did some googling and it's from the biography. This is what I hate about tumblr. It's all completely random stuff with no context, no sourcing and no discussion, just those pointless reblog "notes" edit2: of course, biography not autobiography, dunno what I was thinking

Huh? What does Tumblr have to do with anything?

[deleted]

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#58

Post by nirvana »

daimyoyo wrote: post #27

With this in mind I wonder why he chose to sell Pixar. While he made a tremendous amount of money from the sale, I don't think it was really enough to make a tremendous change in his lifestyle.

He sold Pixar, because it gave Ed Catmull and John Lasseter the opportunity to do what they'd always wanted to do, at Disney.

Pixar was created because Disney was missing he market. When Disney bought them, the Pixar guys started running the show at Disney.

Steve Jobs bought a small division of Lucas Arts that was going to be shut down otherwise, and, along with those guys and others turned it into Pixar for the purpose of realizing this market.

When he sold it, it was a real company, and it enabled the cofounders of Pixar to pursue their dreams. It was a win-win.

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#59

Post by jarek »

anon808 wrote: post #48
middus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with looking to make a quick buck without having to work hard for it in the first place?

There's no rules, you can do whatever you want. But i think a lot of people have realized history shows the get rich quick type of folks tend not to actually contribute anything to human progress and more often than not are looking to take advantage of others for their own gain (allowing them to save time to riches). My question: Why would I ever want to deal with anyone like that, and why would anyone else?

How many people are actually contributing anything to human progress?

Re: Steve Jobs' memo to startups

#60

Post by tlammens »

daleharvey wrote: post #39
veyron wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he's criticizing is doing a startup specifically so that it could be flipped later. If you are in it to build a real company, you actually go through the hard work that Jobs is talking about. Did you start viaweb to sell it to someone else later, or did you start it to build an actual sustainable business?

Would it be less or more worthy of criticism if pg had specifically planned to sell viaweb and start ycombinator?

I would say no, it can be the necessary stepping stone to something else. In that case it can be a stepping stone for both the sellers and the buyers whom did not have the "right" people for the job yet, but by selling got the people who could do it.
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